Enchant no longer working in place of perm

Was this change intended? Used enchant to do FIVE not knowing about this, only found out after that it wasn't working properly.

It would be nice to learn more about this–I bought a Thieves Dagger that was enchanted rather than permed, and both seller and I found out this didn't work only after I had bound it to myself. :/

Red confirmed in discord yesterday for someone (maybe you?) that this was working as intended and there were no current plans to change it.

I suspected this. It's the old original way, chant for chants, perm for perms. I've been doing it this original way without problems.

Yes, Red did confirm working as intended. Maybe they will add a reset enchants spell or something later so that items can be salvaged.

Enchants are for character effects (Shields, Regen, Str, Dex), Perms for items effects (F, I, V, E, IA.) Hasn't this always been the case? Have you been able to use enchant for weapon effects before? I never knew that…

The current implementation was the original implementation. It was changed at some point somewhere to let enchant function for anything, but I really have no idea why. This completely negates the point of the perm spell. I'm in favor of keeping it as it is now, and as it was originally.

I've heard that Perm has a lower % of success than Enchant for each corresponding slot. But I've not really seen anything official anywhere to defend that belief. I feel like the change to make enchant work both ways started the rumor that it's harder to perm. Really some guy probably thought "perm…. enchant… code does the same thing. time to REFACTOR!"

Enchant IA still works. But you can't also perm and double dip on the IA bonus.

There was a time when enchanting a weapon also gave you the respective unarmed buff (i.e. enchant a weapon with Venom and it would work as Venom on the weapon and the character would receive Venomous Touch buff).

Not a huge deal, it actually saves more mana/gold to perm. But I can see why Phaze would be upset if he ruined a weapon by not knowing.

Yeah that was pretty much what happened lol. FIVE'd a WRATH using enchant but didn't know they reverted it. It was working before on Mistwalkers

Was this change intended? Used enchant to do FIVE not knowing about this, only found out after that it wasn't working properly.

Hi Phaze, Since the launch of "Finvarra's Fortress" enchant has been for the wearer and permanency has been for the item. Apologies for any misunderstanding. This is by design.

I've heard that Perm has a lower % of success than Enchant for each corresponding slot. But I've not really seen anything official anywhere to defend that belief. I feel like the change to make enchant work both ways started the rumor that it's harder to perm. Really some guy probably thought "perm…. enchant… code does the same thing. time to REFACTOR!"

You're actually correct. Affects applied to an item when casting enchant carry a weight of 30, and while casting permanency it carries a weight of 35. With the update coming out July 12th this has been adjusted so that both have a weight of 30.

Post July 12th Update – 189 SDM:

• Enchant you have a 20% chance to apply 5 affects.
• Permanency you have ~10% chance to apply 5 affects.

Hope this clears it up a bit!

Regards,
Sam

@Redbeard can you expand on the "weight" logic? Maybe it makes more sense if you know the formula for success (which I do remember having long ago…) but I don't think most of us know it.

Also, can you touch on the rationale behind having different success chances for perm and enchant?

@Redbeard can you expand on the "weight" logic? Maybe it makes more sense if you know the formula for success (which I do remember having long ago…) but I don't think most of us know it.

Also, can you touch on the rationale behind having different success chances for perm and enchant?

It's pretty basic; If you have 4 affects on an item it has a -120 Weight. So if your chance at success was 100 there is no way that you would succeed with a 5th because you would be at -20.

As far as providing some sort of rationale around perm being harder, I have no idea. I don't know any of the previous programmers. Perhaps because the cost was cheaper?

@Redbeard thanks for the clarity!

I thought you were saying that you were modifying the perm/enchant success, but you are saying that's the way it is already.

I know that if you wayback the ladypolgara site from when 180 was the cap there's no mention of a difference in success, but perhaps Stephen just didn't disclose that at the time.

Or perhaps it was changed along the way maybe when they moved max sdm to 189 instead of 180.

At any rate thanks again!