Discussing the New Age of PvP

Started by Shinobi


Hi everyone, I just wanted to make a brief post to bring some attention to the current (pretty solid) state of PvP on FF and raise some ideas for small easy-to-implement balance suggestions.

High-end PvP is in a great place. The eons-long stalemates that existed with 600 weapons are no longer a detractor to the fun (for the record, I didn't mind them too much but agree sometimes matches could go a bit long). Enter 900s and the matches are decidedly much quicker but not without some semblance of being able to impact the outcome with our beloved turn-based strategies.


Tier 1:
ASGW (stun attacker)
ASGT (stun attacker)
Shinobi Thief (bleeder)

Tier 2:
Khego Human adv build (stun attacker)
14/7/14/13 giant necro wiz (stun attacker, also this one is untested but I believe either T2 or possibly T1)
Anomily/SLord orc warrior (bleeder or stun attacker dependent on matchup)
ADOT (bleeder)
Wiz hybrid (bleeder)
AEGT (bleeder)
AEEWiz necro (stun attacker)

Tier 3:
AIEW uber necromancy (axe stun attacker)
AIEW uber elementalism (2hs stun attacker)
AEEWiz elem (stun attacker)
Adv (bleeders, stun attackers)
Giant thiefs (armor ignore)

Tier 4:
Throwing mages/thiefs/advs
Balanced mages

So those are the tiers as they stand, as far as I can tell. I love when people prove me wrong but I've put quite a few matches in and that's as honest as I can see it.

I'm not going to get into tactics and how I think you should play out a fight, but needless to say there are A LOT of spells which are useful in certain situations that I don't see people using or trying. Spells like Crushing Boulder, Drain Life, Steal Life, Death Touch, Poison Barrage, Stoning, Summon Doppelganger, Night Friends, Light Dart and more are very viable spells. Heck, I have even finished people off with Ice Storm before. If you want my advice on how to approach a specific fight I'd be glad to share.

I have a few easy-to-implement suggestions that could be made in order to improve the current state of PvP. My goal is to boost Tier 4 builds while reducing the effectiveness of certain Tier 1 strategies. My suggestions are meant to have AS LITTLE of an impact on PvE as possible, as not to disrupt that aspect of the game.

#1: Nerf Thief's Mask. Instead of a 100% proc rate, it needs to be reduced to 50% or 75% (I think somewhere around there would be fair to start). It's the premier PvP item in the game and I don't know how no one caught on to this before.

#2: Buff Helm of Intelligence: Add +Free Will to the Helm of Intelligence. The adv class could use a small buff and this would give them a legit class-specific item.

#3: Buff Throwing Daggers for PvP: Add +75% SDM in Thaum/Elem/Necro to The Rusty Shiv (+50 to FP, +25% to uruz). Currently throwing dagger is Tier 4. It has a really hard time doing viable damage to the high AR opponents one will face in PvP. Even against clothed opponents the throwing dagger will be highly dependent on stringing together enough crits to take out a well-geared opponent. I think the SDM bonuses, could give throwers a deeper toolkit of options in PvP without impacting PvE turbo-thrower group balance at all.

#4: Buff Hood of Shifting: Add +Free Will & +DMP to Hood of Shifting.

In conclusion I think PvP is in a great place and I am opening the floor up to discussion on this topic. In my opinion MANY builds are currently viable and I have just as much fun PvP'ing on my Tier 3 toons as I do on my Tier 1 toons. Tier 4 needs a small buff and that is what my intentions are in my proposed balance changes.

Message me in-game as Shinobi if you ever want to have a friendly spar or talk PvP!



These are easy quality of life changes (no major mechanical things), I hope the devs consider it!


I will say that after testing my Shiv quite a bit in PvE, it still seems underpowered on the Poison buildup side of things. Damage is quite good in PvE for sure, but the poison is still meh, and since Shiv doesn't have a proc, it seems underpowered compared to all of the other 900s.


With the recent changes to Wit's End I suspect that the 2sq stun attacker with Wit's End gets a downgrade in tiers. I know SLord was pushing for the proc change to Iron Chains but I much preferred the Confusion proc.

ShadowLord (Staff)

I never pushed for nor recommended changing the proc on Wit's End, don't recall ever actually mentioning it to anyone on Dev outside of gathering feedback from players. The change came from multiple people who had recommended changing it, most of which I never even talked to.


Many people were pushing for a buff to Wit's End. With the new version of iron chains, which AOE pulls enemies into cleave range and "freezes" them, this is a significant buff to the weapon IMO.