F12 Removal Constructive Criticism/Feedback

Started by BradfordLee

BradfordLee

To Whom it may concern,

I've decided to get ahead of this before there is a massive backlash because, frankly, constructive criticism is more beneficial than the yelling and complaining that will certainly come as a part of this change.

My Abstract: F12 is a Quality of Life change that benefits the player experience. For this reason, changing it is fundamentally flawed and out of touch with the player experience. Ultimately, this changes the player paradigm. In cases where unpopular changes happen, people can adapt. However, the removal of Quality of Life content is something that is hardly (if at all) adaptable for the current player experience.

First, let's address the rationale that Gimli gave to Channel 3 for this change on 12.28.2020

[11:09PM] Gimli: Reasons? Well it was never intended to be out of combat to begin with. It makes all of the animations look broken not to mention a trigger for people with health conditions

Now I'll address these 3 reasons that Gimli mentions and tell you why I believe them to be flawed.

1) Well, it was never intended to be out of combat to begin with.

Mistakes happen all the time. Why should a positive quality of life change, that was not intended, be thwarted because it wasn't originally in the playbook? I don't understand how this is a reasonable rationale for change when the current system is superior to the player experience.

Bob Ross - "Happy little Accidents"

2) It makes all of the animations look broken - If you believe animations are a concern for the player experience in a 25+ year old MMO, then you should perhaps re-evaluate the priorities for the game designers. I can't think of a time since I returned to The Realm (~2-3years ago) when an enfranchised player mentioned "broken graphics" as a reason for stopping playing. As for a new player, if graphics are the reason for not becoming enfranchised or retained then F12 certainly wasn't the reason this happened. They formed their judgement long before they figured out what F12 does.

3) A trigger for people with health conditions - WHAT? This is the most flawed of all of the rationale for this change. If health conditions are of concern then you hit the F11 button. Isn't flexibility and customization in place so that you can meet with the ideal player experience for as many people as possible? I really don't understand removing customization as a reason for solving health problems…

I do want to note that there may be unknown factors that I, and the general player base, do not know about. If this is true, then it should be made apparent to the players ASAP. If there is no unknown factors, then the rationale is clearly flawed.

Also, this paradigm shift will certainly see people adapting to the use of Memory-Recall spells. While Memory-Recall is a cool concept, I'm not excited to have 15+ scrolls in my inventory at all times or littered all over my house. If inventory management in this game is annoying to you… it just got much worse. Additionally, one of the spells for Memory-Recall is (currently) a prestige only spell. Until that gets changed all the new players get screwed when it comes to mobility. Another suggestion would be to consider making Memory-Recall Scrolls work in a backpack.

Now for my anecdotal evidence: When I returned to Realm on MistWalkers, I got bored after about 150 levels because frankly the first ~300 levels were boring. But, then I saw a post on the Discord Server that shared the speed files! I added them and suddenly my desire to keep grinding had returned. The pace of play was a limiting factor in my enjoyment. I ultimately stopped playing on MistWalkers because the friends that joined me in game lost interest due to the pace of play being slow. I tried to get them to use speed files, but they just didn't really care anymore.

I decided to give Finvarra's Fortress a chance after a few months of it being up. I figured I would get bored because the pace of the game was so slow and Speed Files were probably not allowed. When I saw the many Quality of Life changes that were implemented, I gained confidence in the group of people working on The Realm for the first time since like Codemasters days (if that). I can say that F12, and other quality of life content, was the most important factors for me staying with the game and without it, its a deal breaker for me. If there is ever a server wipe I will never grind those first 300 levels again at 1994 King's Quest speed.

I really hope you will reconsider this change. Until then… So long and thanks for all the fish (again).

~DankfordLee

P.S. Are we allowed to use Speed Files on Finvarra's Fortress?

Crom Kobold Dad

My take on the new change is:

  1. Speed was too fast out of combat, sure, it makes the game impossible for interacting with others (pvp, pickpocket, see who the person even is, etc.) so the change itself was warranted.
  2. This is too much speed reduction out of combat.
  3. Looting in the battle butt should use the sped up speed, I don't get why it gets removed at end of combat, not when leaving my butt.

I appreciate the game a lot and the changes that have been made by the team. I don't plan on leaving, but it sure does make the game a lot harder to play.

EDIT: Looks like my issues have more or less been taken care of. I'm fine with it now!

Gimli (Staff)

Looting in combat has been fixed. Outside combat speed increased an additional 20%.

Vickstress

I do not like this speed reduction and do not agree with it. It makes no sense whatsoever. I suggest you return F12 as soon as possible.

Vickstress

Gimli, 20% is still way too slow. I have 9 paying accounts and spend about $300 a month on MTX. I don't think you want to lose my my business. Get it fixed ASAP.

Draygon

I can see your reason for slowing things down. But I think this was way too much. I'm pretty new back to this game after many years of it not existing. I enjoyed the speed increase a lot. Maybe put that option back in but not set the bar so high as to give it warp speed.

jimito

Ok so just reduce speed as necessary but not to a crawl. Take heed to the constructive criticism that you requested please.

Kilup

The change isn't that bad after the hotfix to combat speed looting. The issue is that now since I had it, it's like going back to an old PC with slow framerates from a new PC that could run a game properly. The isn't isn't in the logical "why" it was or wasn't this way in the past, why you did or didn't want to add it in the first place, etc. The mistake is that you gave it to us, and now you're taking it away. I just started back a week ago and didn't use this for 2 days, so I'm only annoyed at having lost it after only 3 days or so, I can only imagine the other player frustration (well, don't have to imagine too much seeing 4 the past couple days)

jimito

Please reconsider. It's not the end of the world to admit when you're wrong.

Gimli (Staff)

I've rolled back the changes to out of combat speed. In the future they will be tested in isolation on the EA server.

jimito

THANK YOU! thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you and thank you.

Harry

As someone who's played off and on since Mistwalkers for the past four years. I'm sure there are many who have since not logged in that will be pleasantly unhappy about removing the speed files.

Frankly, I'm disappointed in the team working on removing quality of life changes instead of focusing on making the game more fun by adding more content or new useful features. But this is the way the team at Rat Labs has always done it. The team should seriously consider running at least a straw poll before working on changes like how Elphame's Arena is being run.

I haven't logged in for months (or subscribed) because there is simply nothing valuable enough for me to do in the game. At one point I did subscribe with six accounts. I guess more players need to vote with their wallets before any serious change is considered.

Harry

I apologize if my words weren't clear. You are doing a great job with the iterative feedback for Elphames Arena. I've logged in a few hours in EA.

Rat Labs has done great job overall. You do a good job listening to feedback compared to some triple A Studios.

It would be nice to just have more input before making huge changes for Finvarra's Fortress. A short conversation in Discord or a pop in on channel 3 or 4 chat isn't enough feedback from the entire Realm community.

Khego

Calling max F12 "QoL" is an overstatement. While fast gameplay appears to be preferred by the majority of the current player base, it takes away from a core element of MMOs which is player interaction (Almost entirely when coupled with 6-boxing). That same majority of player base frequently complains about the lack of active players and laughs at the idea of actual new players.

If the game is ever going to grow, development cannot continue to cater to the existing player base that REEEEs every time there's a change. For those of you that are newer, this has been happening since day 1 when actual legacy players (Yes, the DG server) didn't want the changes from MW. It didn't start yesterday with F12.

Along those lines, I agree with @Harry that listening to feedback and engaging the players is vitally important. But basing decisions on a conversation from Discord or Channel 3 is a terrible idea. Development should do what they think is best long term for the game, period.

All that being said, I don't think solely reducing F12 speed is the answer. I think it's a combination of more interesting player interaction (PvP zones, World Bosses, World Treasure Nodes, etc), smaller zones and then maybe some reduced speed. And there's likely a happy medium speed where it's still "playable" for the OGs, you can actually click on someone and it doesn't look like absolute shit to an actual new player.

Malevolent

Calling max F12 "QoL" is an overstatement. While fast gameplay appears to be preferred by the majority of the current player base, it takes away from a core element of MMOs which is player interaction (Almost entirely when coupled with 6-boxing). That same majority of player base frequently complains about the lack of active players and laughs at the idea of actual new players.

If the game is ever going to grow, development cannot continue to cater to the existing player base that REEEEs every time there's a change. For those of you that are newer, this has been happening since day 1 when actual legacy players (Yes, the DG server) didn't want the changes from MW. It didn't start yesterday with F12.

Along those lines, I agree with @Harry that listening to feedback and engaging the players is vitally important. But basing decisions on a conversation from Discord or Channel 3 is a terrible idea. Development should do what they think is best long term for the game, period.

All that being said, I don't think solely reducing F12 speed is the answer. I think it's a combination of more interesting player interaction (PvP zones, World Bosses, World Treasure Nodes, etc), smaller zones and then maybe some reduced speed. And there's likely a happy medium speed where it's still "playable" for the OGs, you can actually click on someone and it doesn't look like absolute shit to an actual new player.

Agreed. I feel like players are ignoring the benefits this change would bring. Less glitchy-looking environmental effects, animated mobs like a fury would look appropriate, and you’d be able to tag people in PvP. Many players just want to glitch across screens without any semblance of travel animation. I didn’t have a chance to see the change in action before it was rolled back, but perhaps the reduction was too severe? Hopefully there is a happy medium as Khego said that could highlight the benefits I mentioned without being a hindrance.

MeanOne

I must say that I think the F12/speed files really changed the game for the better for me. I think it changed my whole life… I played in the nineties and it was never questioned to be slow….so when I played at full F12 speed, my world changed speeds in dramatically noticeable ways. (chuckles) I tell you though, considering reading all of the above posts…. that I can understand player interaction is almost nil when people are speeding past each other - yet, we still may stand still and talk with each other whenever we want.

Also, considering the fact, that the graphics and animations are something with which the Realm staff work hard, I do not understand how it ruins them, by going faster.

If Realm does go slower, I will accept the change as something the developers think is necessary for more than one reason - and it will not ruin the game for me. But my vote is to keep the F12 speeds, at full blast, regardless, of combat or no-combat.