GHelms and Illicit Trading

It's been made clear that cosmetic items, such as rare dyes, will be introduced for purchase via $ through the official team, while items that affect a character's power (i.e., weapons and armor) will not. This is a reasonable system and allows Rat Labs to bring in much deserved revenue while preventing a pay-to-win system.

GHelms will likely make a return in some capacity. My proposal is that they be included via cosmetic purchase, as well as a possible rare open-world or dungeon drop (so people also have a chance to grind for them). High-end cosmetic items such as GHelms tend to end up being traded on the black market for $ anyway and I speak from experience in that I will admit that I sold quite a bit of items in the past (5+ years ago). Adding GHelms to cosmetic purchases will likely contribute to the following:

1) limit illicit trading for $

2) shift the revenue to be gained from trading high-end cosmetic gear to the dev team (who deserves it more than illicit traders)

This might not be a perfect approach, but is worth consideration. Any thoughts?

I don't recall Ghelms. Maybe they were added after I stopped playing or maybe I never got one?

Yes to all of the above. Random/Grind chances, then cash shop options should be the approach for any Vanity/Cosmetic items. Which I include any type of Glowie in. This is why I fully support the change to GBON.

I actually would say, make a Glowie dye, that's open world random drop change, or cash shop accessible only. Forget just GHelm, if someone wants to make, anything, a glowie, go for it. These things don't effect the balance of the game, and stricly are cosmetic. If someone wants to take money out their pocket to make their character look cool, go for it.

Thanks for the feedback. Although the server is still fairly new, something that I’ve observed since its launch is that there is such a primary emphasis on grinding end-game and people are already demanding the option to prestige. Although playing this way is how many enjoy their time on the Realm, there also exists a population that doesn’t plan to grind out 9000 levels per character and enjoys the game via towning. I believe that offering high-end cosmetic items (such as GHelms) in the cash shop with possible rare in-game drops would support and encourage the play styles of everyone. The committed high level players can still obtain unique and powerful gear that will not be attainable through the cash shop.

I'd be fine with it - as i've mentioned plenty of times on discord - if the glowie gear from the cash store is done similarly to gamble chests / gacha game / cs:go crates style of looting, as it:

a) creates a higher value and status for these iconic items - instead of "hey I dropped $10 for this"
b) it's actually exciting when you get it instead of literally just paying for it straight up
c) allows many other cosmetics/MTX items to be discovered in the chests/crates that you didn't realise you actually really liked while searching for your glowies
d) creates more opportunities for player trading their random chest MTX stuff with other players for things they do want

I do feel as though I'm the minority on this sadly, but i just find it incredibly boring when people just buy the best looking stuff straight up, the very best stuff should be rare and hard to obtain - even in MTX.

The glowie gear would be like pulling a knife in CSGO, or a rare/epic item in countless other games. Perhaps slightly more common than that, but you get the idea. It should be the "top prize" in these gacha games.

It's not like the gambling chest items you pull which aren't glowies would have zero value, it's likely you'd be able to trade any dyes and other MTX cosmetics (whatever they are) into gold or for other stuff with other players, it just creates more buzz about it and desire for trading instead of just buying exactly what you want and having no desire to interact with anyone to get it.

Never played CS:GO that much, but are you referring to Rocket League style loot crates that you spend $ on to unlock crates that are obtained via semi-rare drops? If so, I could get down with that as long as the crate drops are as common in open world as they are in dungeons. In my opinion, the cosmetic cash shop should cater to both townies and grinders. I like the idea of supporting trading, as trading and towning are the main reasons I play the Realm. However, personally, I don't want to see the game develop into a grind fest in which the only focus is on prestiging over and over. It doesn't capture the spirit of the original game which lasted the test of time.

I support the loot crate system, but I think it would be better to simply buy the crates directly and the contents are randomized. Maybe I am mistaken and this is the system you are referring to, as I am referencing Rocket League in which the crates are a semi-rare drop and then the contents are rolled (and you only get something good in 1 out of 100+ crates).

Yeah, I was referring to just a simple buy chest > open chest > get rng rewards from a set pool for that specific chest. Random rewards could vary from dyes, house ornaments, old school removed cosmetic gear pieces to rare glowies. But I'd be fine with either, just personally I wouldn't spend anything on just buying cosmetics straight up because everyone will have them if they're that easy to get - which takes away from the uniqueness of customising your character.

I think this could work well. However, it might be best to make the loot probabilities public for the chests so people do not feel cheated. If the probabilities are known, then people will have to take responsibility for the outcome since they knew what they were buying into.

I think it's good practice for gamble chests to show odds - all the big games have had to do it since China made a law making it illegal to not show odds. It's become "the done thing" since then.

F*ck loot crates. If you are going to have a cash shop, let me support the game and specifically buy the cosmetic item I want. Loot crates are illegal in many different countries for a reason and are unethical.

I support a cash shop for cosmetic items fully because Rat Labs needs revenue to make TRO a great future game and expand upon the concept. However, I will not buy one dang loot crate to have a chance at gear. Leave the "chance mechanic" to in game gambler den where I am using gold.

What are your thoughts on GHelms being in the cosmetic shop (if purchased directly)?

They are illegal in some countries - because the odds are not shown and are often times done to such a degree that you have to buy thousands of crates just to get one decent item. When done well they're incredibly rewarding, though i value opinions usually.. but "f*ck loot crates" is not the most constructive thing in the thread.

Cosmetics for direct purchase will never get traded - as people will only purchase cosmetic items they want to use themselves. Which means the mtx system will not feed into the trading side of the game whatsoever - the only reason people will trade mtx is as a loop hole to get around paying real money for in-game currency, which is just shady imo. Loot crates when done pretty fairly introduce so many more cosmetics into the game in each crate cycle, introducing some rares, some dyes, some house ornaments which may only be seen annually, which creates hype for them as seasonal rares. Creating rarity creates desire, creating desire creates playtime, creating playtime increases game life span. Don't mean to go all rhymenoceros on you but man, be more construcive with your feedback, please, why? Why? Why 'cause I rap about reality, like me and my grandma drinkin' a cuppa' tea?

– either way, the bottom line from my PoV is that crates when done fairly are incredibly conducive to creating a functional trading economy as it stimulates far more trading than direct purchase cosmetics, counter-acts real money trading and is just a lot of fun. Those who don't enjoy crates just want all the good cosmetics without any work (grinding a lot of gold and buying it off someone) or spending a lot of money$$.

— Also.. As an added caveat regarding the legality of gamble chests, they're only illegal in countries in which gambling is illegal which is not that many places - and on top of that they have to also class in-game gamble chests as gambling, here in the UK they recently debated that they are not classed as gambling, but are in a blurry space - when the odds are shown they're perfectly legal so everyone knows what they're getting into. The main controversy was caused when it was proven through raw statistics on chinese private servers with free purchases activated that it took over 100,000 crates just to get a single top prize, and since that study the odds on crates have been made a legal requirement which has lead to a drastic fairness equalisation across the board for this system. The average win rate increasing from 1/100,000 to 1/1,000 on average in chinese games, western games seem to be even more fair than that, sometimes with a guaranteed rare after as few as 10 purchases in one go.

—- one last note just to give you an example: If a Glowie hat cost I don't know.. $50 on direct purchase, you'd be like yeahhhh awesome direct purchase.. You'd buy that, wear it around town and have no positive impact on the game outside of you growing your virtual penis. However, if there was loot crates where the odds were say.. 10% chance to get a glowie helm (random helm), and they cost $5 each, you bought 10 chests and lets just assume you got the law of average results of 9 random items and 1 glowie helm after your 10 purchases, you got A glowie helm, as well as 9 fun dyes/ornaments/other misc cosmetics whatever they could be, for the same price.. However. You now have an opportunity to feed those items back into the economy through trading, you can trade your glowie helm for a different one you may prefer, you can trade your dyes for others people may have pulled from their chests, or gold, or whatever you please. It creates more interaction between the players than your virtual penis size.

we can already gain the currency for cosmetics anyways by playing in events and earning coppers. duhh..

In my opinion, I believe either system (direct vs. chests) could work if done properly. Zewpi’s recommendation on the chest system does seem appropriate (chests costing less than a direct purchases would, with a fair percentage of a high-end item). This system would facilitate more cosmetic trading in the economy. However, I would anticipate more complaining when tying cash to RNG in general. Personally, I am fine with either approach.

Wait what? Any cash purchase cosmetic should be bound to account and not trade able. That is a given - otherwise you introduce a system of paying cash for gold essentially. Distorts the market and allows you to pay to win and achieve non cosmetic items buy selling cosmetic items for gold that you earned with cash.

This is why direct purchase works. Just buy what you exactly want. Doesn’t screw with the economy or introduce pay 2 win.

I see the argument for untradeable MTX stuff, however look around, even WoW you can trade MTX through gift system or selling of monthly subs. It's 2018 not 1996, If people want GHelms they should be able to buy them for a lot a lot a lot of gold whether they're a drop or an MTX. Trade value will work itself out and become balanced, if there's a lot of gold in the economy MTX helmets will be traded for a lot of gold - just as everything else of value is sold for an equally high price, so i mean.. technically someone can pay to win but hey if they want to support Rat Labs through repeated MTX to bypass the main point of the game which is grinding gear/exp then so be it. It's no skin off my back, as long as you can't buy gold directly through MTX the value will always be proportional to the economic state at the time of purchase/sale.

I'm not going to just repeat everything I've already been over, but there's countless games with tradeable MTX that work great. What I will say though is even if you have tons of gold from selling MTX in a game like the realm - especially now BoE is in, the items have to exist for you to be able to buy them even if you're the wealthiest person in the game, which I don't really see ever being the case currently, at least not for a very long time and even if you overpay - which you probably will given the situation - that gold just goes back around in a circle further stimulating the economy through exchanging hands.

Ultimately the decision is on the devs but it's constructive debates like this which will give them a good view on both sides so by all means please do continue.

Are you ok with just allowing the outright purchase of gold with dollars? I buy a token. I convert that token into a proxy amount that uses the average gold in existence (I.e., adjusted for inflation).

No obviously, because that creates gold out of nothing, which severely inflates the economy, whereas trading for what gold is already there is fine, as things maintain value within the bounds of what gold the game is able to give to everyone.

This should happen, and its good to see the community being realistic about it. I hope to see cosmetic items/dyes that are drop only as well as purchased in the cash shop. I agree GHelms are a good item to consider for the cash shop. The Realm the last 15 years has had a VERY heavy history of black market/real money trading and it was never dealt with. I know many of us would rather the devs fix a price on a GHelm at 30$ and take 100% of the profit then have them sold otherwise for example. I will say though I hope the majority of items in the cash shop are tradable for obvious reasons (other accounts, alts, give them away to friends, trade, lose them in pvp, etc).

This should happen, and its good to see the community being realistic about it. I hope to see cosmetic items/dyes that are drop only as well as purchased in the cash shop. I agree GHelms are a good item to consider for the cash shop. The Realm the last 15 years has had a VERY heavy history of black market/real money trading and it was never dealt with. I know many of us would rather the devs fix a price on a GHelm at 30$ and take 100% of the profit then have them sold otherwise for example. I will say though I hope the majority of items in the cash shop are tradable for obvious reasons (other accounts, alts, give them away to friends, trade, lose them in pvp, etc).

Things I would also like to see in the cash shop:
Crests/House Crests with 'Titles' for purchase maybe based on different gods/designs.
Meaningful house alteration items (fountains, lava, etc.)
Pets? That follow you around in game and in combat?
Different house models - I would pay 100$ for my house to look like a god temple. just saying.
Boss monster tokens - 10$ or something for a specific end game boss, with random loot and rewards maybe they all have specific cosmetic items that could drop?
Subscription tokens - 10$ but tradeable so you can trade them to people who play for free in exchange for gold. this would almost eliminate secondary market problems.

If all that is tradable would also be amazing for the economy and free to play players.

Thank you everyone for contributing to the discussion. It seems that the community in general is supportive of this move.

I do not mind the idea of cosmetic dyes being for sale from the dev team but I think there needs to equally be more overworld rare drops rather than static dungeon drops. I would love to be able to farm for some new items/cosmetic items in the overworld I think the game needs it. This is coming from a Subbed customer. I do think SOME rare findable dyes would be nice like flesh/glowie colors, I would be ecstatic if this was added to over world drops.

As for people selling items for real money this will always happen regardless of the economy. I dont think it makes a huge difference in terms of finding items. But cosmetic paid items could be a bonus secondary. I want to be able to farm for rare sought after gear, it brings a lot of fun to the game having items only findable that others dont have or want. Id love to thrive to find glowie dyes for all my gear. While buying it out right is okay it isnt the same.

I like the idea of having a pet. Even if they can only code it to be in your house. That would be so cool.