At a certain level I think it would be fair to have Heroic dungeons soloable. As it stands most people wont group because they multibox several accounts and get to take advantage of that fact. For people that are level 700-1000 it's impossible to solo these dungeons let alone find a group for them. I think something needs to be worked out to make this more fair. I am paying customer I'd like to be able to see all the content.
As it stands people that multibox several characters are being rewarded. While others who do not, cant get groups to run them and miss out on really good loot and content.
EDIT: After a lot of soul searching and trying out the multiboxing I realized I was completely wrong. Its part of the game. I actually enjoy running multiple toons. That said; I want to apologize for being an ignorant guy.. I am all for it. I still think they need more soloable content for later levels though. Thanks for ripping me apart. JK.
I never have a problem finding a group for Heroic dungeons, especially if the dungeon is hot. Just announce on 3 and 4 that you're looking for more and you can usually get a pretty full group in a few minutes.
No, they should not. They are heroic.
I do agree that heroics should be soloable, but not easily. I feel like as a level 620 wiz I should be able to solo hFD without death cheesing my way through it, especially since I'm using full Necro gear. Even with 6500 hp I spent 60k Mana crystals (pre insurance Nerf) and still didn't quite make it to the last fight. There are some folks saying that content is "too easy"" already. I'm not opposed to difficult content, but I don't think the game should be balanced around folks who are running several instances. If you choose to multibox you are adjusting your difficulty slider. This is something one does out of their own volition. I also understand that there is a group function. The highest level heroics dungeons should require a full party with gear; but, do we really want the mid level ones to have that same barrier of entry?
From what ive seen the only people who dont want Heroics to be soloable at higher levels are people who multibox several characters. Which is unfair to a lot of people.
No. I am not heavily multiboxing at this time, and in fact only my main account is a noble citizen and thus eligible for heroics right now. When I want to run heroics, I group with people. This is an MMORPG. Play with other players if you want to do the hardest content. If everything is soloable, that means no content will be an appropriate challenge for groups. Don’t monopolize all gameplay for solo players. Let social players have something exciting to do as well.
E: Also, for what it’s worth, I did solo hUSH right after I noble subbed, at level 694. I died twice. Once to a surprise DV and once because I thought a mob was a summon that would de spawn but it was actually very real and smacked me when I lazily hit guard. If you’re really dedicated and patient you can solo. I wouldn’t advise it, though. I got 13 levels in that run but it took a couple hours since there was so much healing I couldn’t out-damage and I was kind of at the mercy of holds/spell blasts sticking and AI getting greedy to kill some packs with fire wasps. So it’s not efficient, but if it’s a personal challenge for you, and your character is built to handle soloing well, you can.
Multiboxing isn't social and most people multibox instead of grouping.
Years ago, they didn't have heroic, but all the higher level caves were soloable. I used to do Greater Hives and Demon Home with just my Wiz somewhere between 600 to 800. I do miss being able to do that. But I think we just need a new set of caves just for solos. I don't think we should change the current ones. I think we simply need more solo areas, just like we could use some more lower and mid level caves.
I definitely understand wanting to be able to see everything all by yourself. It's just, this kind of game, it's really not designed for that. You either have to group or multibox if you want to see it all.
I don't mind people multiboxing. I'll probably end up doing it eventually just so I can see more areas and get more stuff. I really wouldn't call it being unfair. The only thing that makes it seem unfair is because those who do it end up with most of the good stuff. But if you save gold, you can just buy what you need. Plus, multiboxing is a choice. No one is forcing anyone to do it or not.
The whole argument of being a paying customer and should be able to see it all, well for that, I think there should be maybe some special item for paying players, like a God item that would maybe give you Godmode temporarily so you could explore everything solo. But it should be strictly for paying players, and maybe limited per cave, too. And bound to your account so it doesn't kill the economy. If I was coding this game, I think that's what I would do. I would make a special paying player Godmode item.
The alternate solution would be to have a second entrance which is for solo players, with nerfed content, but would naturally have to have less reward, otherwise those with 6 chars will run 6 of the solo dungeon simultaneously for 6x the reward in the same time period. Group content SHOULD always be the most rewarding - however introducing interesting solo content could be the more ideal avenue to take development wise - at least to get around this problem.
But the way it stands now people that Multibox are given more chances at better items. why should i be punished for being a paying solo player?
That's true, but, it's still an optional choice. You have the option to make more accounts and do it, too. That's why it's technically not really unfair. But it feels like it is when they are the ones with all the better stuff. I think it's been going on forever anyway. I knew people who had four or more paid accounts twenty years ago. It wouldn't matter what the dev team tries to do about it, people will do it anyway. So the only way around it would be workarounds like the Godemode item, or additional solo areas.
But the way it stands now people that Multibox are given more chances at better items. why should i be punished for being a paying solo player?
it's not so much that you're punished, it's just that you should be grouping. If you want to do the group content that everyone multiboxes, group up with all the other solo players and clear it yourselves. Your restrictions are self imposed and the solution isn't to adjust the difficulty slider for everybody but rather for you to find ways of getting around your own self imposed obstacle. You have just as many opportunities as anyone else playing, with or without subbing, accounts are all free to 1k. You can do it all minus heroic stuff completely free - until prestige comes in which won't be for a while.
Your proposed solutions are for the few, but change the entire game for the many. Instead think about the bigger picture. Why would anyone EVER group if the content was soloable. The only reason people multibox is because there's group content which is rewarding. Having challenging solo dungeons would solve a lot of the issues, but is a huge development undertaking.. So just think carefully about what ideas you throw out, they have larger implications than "just let me solo everything because I want to". It'd lead to massive inflation if people were able to run 6 dungeons simultaneously.. Which we all know.. inflation sucks. Gold would be going infinite because the sheer amount of loot people would be pulling potentially 6x faster..
as a side-note : solo stuff I'd imagine is much easier for botters to take advantage of.
the point of my posting is that people that multibox defeat the whole purpose of teaming up. Noone wants to group because they all multibox. I shouldnt have to go out and by 2 more monitors just so i can cheese the game. Its practically exploiting. And they only allow it cause people would cry and they dont have a way of fixing it.
Your claim is untrue. I’ve partied with people for heroics. People put open invites on ch3/4 and anyone of a reasonable level can join up and go. That’s how I’ve done it. Never by multiboxing.
I still think its an unfair advantage Multiboxers keep all the loot to themselves. As a solo player grouping with randoms i probably wont get the item that drops even if something decent does drop. So as it stands multiboxers have a far greater advantage over the game than people like myself.
They do eventually sell the stuff on channel after they get enough of it. But people multibox just for that reason, if you group, you can't be as selfish as you want to be. You usually cannot keep what you find in a group. And I always found, it wasn't cost effective for me to group. I'd end up spending a ton of mana, come out of the cave with nearly nothing to show for it except some exp. It was never worth it to me. I'd rather multibox and get what I want. I just haven't done it yet. I'm still working on leveling one of my toons.
What I really do agree on is that if you spend real money, you should have certain perks for that. That's something the dev team should work on if they expect people to pay cash. There needs to be either the God item I suggested, special items only paying customers can get. Maybe a special paid area only paying customers can access. There should be perks. Maybe a shop where you can buy any game item, but make it bound to the account and limit the amount so it doesn't kill the economy. I'm sure there are things that can be done.
Firstly do you really think paying money should give you such ridiculous amounts of power? What happens if a couple toons buy this "god item" and group up and just 1 round entire heroic dungeons mindlessly - you think that kind of clear speed won't have any knock on effects on the economy and anyone who doesn't spend? Please think about what you're saying. The whole idea behind MTX is to keep it as balanced as possible for those who can't/won't spend anything, while still keeping it rewarding for those who will.
Also - when every other mmo in the world has group content - have they nerfed it into the ground for solo play or added a "god item" for you to clear it simply because you don't want to find groups? No. At least not any respectable ones that I can think of.
Even multiboxers group, goof groups with a lot of people despite him having 6+ toons, it takes some of the mundaneness out of rerunning the same dungeon over and over; just having someone to chat to.. if you're friends it's very likely you'll work out a way for it to be rewarding for both of you, either you rotate drops so each of you get a chance to pick up all loot in the dungeon or you just split the value of everything you find between you.
Finding a drop you both need = roll > pay half the price check so it's fair, or just give it them on the goodwill that they'll help you grind yours. Being so mercenary about grouping is the real reason you don't want to group - not anything else. Please stop this discussion or bring something new to the table as a solution - and stop blaming multiboxers you're beginning to sound like that guy who blames everything else before actually solving the real core issue.
I've played solo, I've played duo and I've multiboxed up to 4 and can honestly say there's not much difference in reward, and often times I've been more rewarded for grinding over world bounties solo than I have grinding dungeons multiboxing - that's the power of a purely rng system for you. In my view the core issue is that solo content isn't as interesting as running dungeons. I dislike overworld farming despite how rewarding it is in certain areas.. but perhaps that's just me.
It’s clear the issue here was never a concern about a lack of content for solo players. It’s envy of players who are putting in more effort and who have chosen to optimize their gameplay for efficiency. I strongly advise that you don’t go down the road of trying to keep up with these Joneses, because you will never succeed. You can solo these dungeons now, but let’s say you couldn’t and they nerf them. Parties of 6 players are still going to clear several times faster than you and thus rake in several times the loot. If you want to compete, you have to play more efficiently. If that doesn’t sound like fun to you, then just don’t. Enjoy the game at your own pace and don’t worry so much about what other people have.
If you'd actually read what I wrote about the God item in the whole thread, I said to put restrictions on it. It absolutely should not be used to over farm. If I was going to code it, I would make it a very limited item. First of all, there shouldn't be an unlimited amount to buy, maybe only a few a month. Second, it would be bound to your account so you couldn't sell it. Third, there would be a time limit on it so it could only be used to go into the caves a few times during that time limit. Considering the drop rate, there's a high chance nothing good would even be found during that time. But it would give a solo a chance to at least experience those areas. If someone is paying real money, they should have perks for that.
Some of us simply do not want to group for various reasons. I'm not against it at all, nor am I against multiboxing. All I'm saying is, if someone pays real money for this game, they should have perks for doing so. And that should include being able to explore wherever they want to. But like I said, it would be a very limited thing.
I intend to expand on this more fully in the MTX thread, however, The “god item” concept is squarely in the category of “pay to win” which gamers for years has considered completely unpalatable and a sign that the makers of the game are soulless money-grubbing monsters. I’m sure whatever reasons you have for wanting it are your own, but the gaming community has spoken on the issue of pay to win micro transactions. Incorporating them will send a strong message that the game can not be taken seriously.
I don't think it's any more or less serious than multiboxing four or more windows to win. That's straight up cheating right there. What I'm saying is, if you pay real cash, there should be special perks for that. And if someone wants to buy an item that lets them explore areas they couldn't otherwise explore, they should be able to do so if they are paying for it. People have been using godmode cheats since pc games came out in the 90's. There is nothing wrong with it. Everyone plays their own way. Some like to explore gameworlds without worrying about dying. They aren't playing to win, they are playing to explore. Others are there to get as much treasure as they can or whatever. And some players just like the challenge of winning fights. I think people should have the freedom to choose how they want to play a game. And if they are paying real world money, then they should have special things for that.
Speaking for myself here: It's not about the loot. It's about the content.
I put everyone's theory to the test. "It's easy to get groups" ??? I posted in channel 3, channel 4, and the discord. No groups. Everyone busy boxing.
Also a "god item" is -not- the answer for a multitude of reasons. No one wants the content to be mindless. Just doable. A solution could be to let the dungeons have a baseline difficulty that scales up the more people that are grouped, with increased rewards.
Drithe, your best bet is to announc the running of a Heroic dungeon that is currently hot. I've never had a problem getting 1-4 people to join the two of me.
A solution could be to let the dungeons have a baseline difficulty that scales up the more people that are grouped, with increased rewards.
That makes sense. I still think we should have more solo caves and then have some that are strictly group caves. I don't think it's balanced right the way it is now, or people wouldn't feel the need to multibox to begin with, at least not at the rate they are now. We should have a set that will work solo, and then a set that's for groups. And your idea of scaling it the further you go in is fine, too.
