Two other things, another house chest for saving stuff would be nice. And upgraded pickpocketing skill for monsters, so there's a chance of maybe getting the drop instead of always having to fight for it. It doesn't have to be a high chance, just a chance, maybe similar to the gambler's den odds.
Two other things, another house chest for saving stuff would be nice. And upgraded pickpocketing skill for monsters, so there's a chance of maybe getting the drop instead of always having to fight for it. It doesn't have to be a high chance, just a chance, maybe similar to the gambler's den odds.
Not saying it is a bad idea, but you can get more chests that are lockable (pretty sure) from the copper shop currently :)
@Sidhe the real issue with battlefronts loot chests were that they had actual game content, and sped up progression or bypassed it entirely, in fact all the games you list as a counter-argument actually selling ways of bypassing the game progression or required content or even currency. Not only cosmetics.
Also as I mention in my other post regarding illicit trading - as long as loot crate odds are published and the odds are relatively fair then it is completely "legal" in all parts of the world. Only the shady gaming companies would hide the crate odds anyway.
It's understandable to want direct purchase MTX, as you literally buy what you want and that's it. Ultimately though without trading you're just that guy who's spent $100 on some pixels which to me is just lame whether it's me doing it or seeing people sitting around in town. Whereas when you introduce trading, you can be a completely free to play player who gets all the coolest cosmetics through sheer grind and playtime. The greatest reward being the rarest loot chests gear.
If trading is part of the MTX system; then to maintain rarity but also counter "p2w" crates are a good way of curving people direct purchasing the most "valuable" MTX and trading it for gold straight up. If loot crate rng is thrown into the mix, it not only becomes less p2w as you are gambling on finding something of high gold value, you also introduce a way of increasing cosmetic item diversity.
For example: If you add Glowie Helms for direct purchase - just think how many there'll be floating around within a short time, I'd wager a lot of them from people trading for gold - p2w. Whereas if you have loot crates, they'll maintain good rarity and still be a status/chase item for everyone.
Keep in mind this is obviously my own opinion, but I do value rarity long-term rather than just chucking $50 every time a new GHelm or whatever is added to the MTX shop - just like everyone else dropping cash on the game. Everyone will just look the same with direct purchase which again, for me personally, would stop me ever bothering purchasing them.
In a game based around chasing and grinding loot, why would you ever want everyone to have the same p2w purchases just sat there, people moan about any MTX trading being p2w (i.e. direct purchase), yet want direct purchase. If there's no trading of MTX cosmetics then all they do is turn your character into a walking dollar sign, I suppose that's what some of you want, but without trading I won't be spending anything other than my monthly subs.
I should add that there should be some more basic stuff available for direct purchase, where as the crates should be the only place to the really rare dyes/baldrics/gear cosmetics. All services such as name changes etc should still be available for direct purchase (duh).
PoE, CS:GO, Dota 2
So, to respond to this I need to break it into two components. First we have trading/P2W as a concern, and separately gambling via loot crates and the result in the secondary market.
Trading/P2W
In PoE, trading of mtx is not possible and never will be, because it would establish an end run around P2W. If I want a leg up in the next league, I spend $500 on a HoGM token, trade it to you, and in exchange you give me 100ex in the league as fast as you can earn it. I paid and I got a significant ingame advantage. GGG, the makers of PoE, are 100% against this.
This is what GGG and PoE players think of P2W:
The analog on The Realm is I go out and real-money purchase 10 million gold worth of mtx for $100 because I'm a lawyer for my wife who is a doctor and our parents each left us a $15M trust fund. I make that $100 every 30 seconds anyway for sleeping in on a slow Tuesday, so why not? Now I go on to channel 3 and see that Ass Rings (of Winning) are selling for 4 million gil and there's a lot of competition and a really limited supply. Well hell with that noise, I made 10 million gold by clicking my mouse on the website a couple times. 10 mil to the first person to bring me an Ass Ring (of Winning). Beat that, channel 3. Yeah, my paying to win sure didn't hurt anyone else's experience all right.
In CS:GO and DotA 2, trading does not cause this problem because your character does not have persistent assets outside of (cosmetic-only) mtx. I can't sell you my super adorbs courier skin in DotA 2 for 500g at the start of every game because you don't have the ability to give me 500g at the start of every game. In fact, there's nothing you can trade me that will give me a competitive edge. So we can trade mtx without it enabling P2W.
Gambling/Secondary Market Value
When gambling on loot crates with weighted odds that make some items rare, there is no way for some players not to "lose." Let's use your hypothetical in Realm as an example with some made up numbers, keeping in mind that if you alter the numbers either things stop becoming rare or the problem becomes even more exacerbated.
Let's say I can buy a pack of 3 flesh colored dye in the cash shop for $3. That will be our baseline cosmetic buy and a "common" in a loot crate.
Now whether or not I can buy a Glowie Baldric of Winning directly for some large amount of cash or not, let's say it appears as one of five rares and a rare is in approximately every 100 crates. Thus, every 500 crates opened should yield about one Glowie Baldric of Winning.
Because we want to be "fair" to our players (this is the pricing model PoE uses for loot crates), we are going to offer a guarantee that every item you can get in a loot crate is worth at least the cost of a loot crate. Our baseline flesh colored dye is $3, and so is a loot crate. This fits because worst case scenario I got $3 worth of dyes, right?
Wrong. If I want that Glowie Baldric of Winning and no one else is willing to trade one, on average I need to open 500 loot crates, or $1500 worth of crates to get one. Variance is high because it's gambling, but this will be the average experience over all buyers of items, which represent one trading pool of loot in the game.
While opening those $1500 worth of loot crates, for every 1 rare I got 99 commons. Let's say just 10 of those were 3-packs of flesh colored dye. Well now I've added 30 flesh colored dye to the ingame market. So did the guy next to me who opened $1500 worth of loot crates because he wanted the Natural White Belt of Awesomeness, another rare. Wow, 60 flesh colored dye and that came from just 2 people chasing 2 rares. How much do you think those are going to command on market once he, I, and everyone else who got flesh colored dyes we didn't want in the first place start competing to sell them? I'll give you a hint. Vulcan's Edges are given away for free on an hourly basis.
So when gambling, even with an mtx-trade economy, there are still clear losers. I can spend $50 on crates and get nothing but commons that I can maybe sell for 10k gold a pop (which is still a P2W problem), IF there are even interested buyers out there.
These systems are complex and there are good reasons why MTX in most mainstream games with persistent assets are not tradeable, and good reasons why even the best intentioned loot crate schemes still hurt people.
Also as I mention in my other post regarding illicit trading - as long as loot crate odds are published and the odds are relatively fair then it is completely "legal" in all parts of the world. Only the shady gaming companies would hide the crate odds anyway.
Please reference the translated link from Belgium's press release above. They cited multiple reasons why loot crates as implemented in these games are violations of gambling legislation. Only one of those reasons is not publishing their odds.
@Sidhe
I totally get your logic on this and it makes good sense. This is the same as my 5 mana crystal complaint. Worthless thing I don't want when there's something I do want out there.
Here is an easy solution to the problem, make it a LIGHT gambling game. You gave the example of an item that is 1/100 so you need to buy 100 crates to logically get the one item (it's fewer or more depending on RNG because RNG is a dick).
What if, instead of having a single loot crate that has a whole list of randoms, we get specific loot crates that only drop certain types and levels of items, and make it so the loot crate is of LOWER cost than the items around it.
For Example (and please note, I'm using this as an exmaple because it's easy, all items sold on the market should be mundane):
Expert Elem Shirt is $2
Expert Elem Cowl is $2
(etc for each of the wear items)
Or, I can buy a Loot Crate of the Expert Elementalist for $1 that will give me one of the random Expert Elemental items. All with even odds.
With this option above, it would WANT to buy one or two loot crates so I can get a couple of the Elemental items cheaper, I'm paying $1 for an item that costs $2 that I need, and as I move on past the 1-2 out of the 5 that exist the odds of me getting a duplicate exist, but it's still likely to be cheaper to buy 5 loot boxes and play my luck, sell the extras, and then either buy what I need with the gold I made from selling, or just buy the exact items I need in the market.
SW:ToR does a system like this, and I've used it a few times to get upgrades to my orange gear.
How would something like that strike you?
Judging from one of the devs responses on discord that has since been deleted, I highly doubt loot crates will even be a thing. It involved some choice words and pretty much said no way in hell I am backing that.
I'm against them myself, but I wouldn't mind a system like the one I outlined above.
PS: Someone should come through and clean up this forum thread, get it so the ideas are all on the top or something and the bickering should proooobably be moved to another thread.
I did something like this on therealm.online, http://www.therealm.online/Microtransactions
Suggestion:
Account Setting:
Walkabout: Make it so that NPCs cannot jump you in the overland areas (aggroing with a spell like deffless will still aggro)
What about a passive ability for Adventurers that they don’t get jumped by NPCs, which fits with their class name anyway. Others can purchase Potions of Indifference to get this for a duration available for a price of 50k per potion or purchase via MTX?
Selling Potions of Indifference solely via MTX is the simple route, but figured selling them for a certain amount of gold too so players have an in-game option.
Ehh, I don't like the idea of selling potions in the cash store, it sets a specific price to things that gets all skewed. Perhaps we could just add this to the Alchemy L6 track and not have the potions available through shops to increase its value.
Drink the potion, it lasts for 100 rounds
Get the addon, it's permanent.
@Sidhe
Anyone who wants to buy currency for PoE has about 100 sites to choose from, and can get whatever they want within 72 hours of a new league, delivered in about 20 minutes.
Realm does not have the following to support RMT in the same way these other games do, but RMT will still continue. Using PoE as an example of a company that has MTX without any trading is cool. (I have about 6 supporter packs since closed beta) but pretending the game isn't P2W for many players is simply not. Any player who wants best in slot gear in the game can get it via RMT.
The problem with Realm is, this game has such a smaller following, it needs money and resources for continued development, and it has a history and track record for RMT. We can all pound the table and pretend it won't happen, but unless trading is completely disabled (any free player can trade freely with anyone at level 1) people will try to RMT.
For every game like Path of Exile, there is also a game like Runescape or World of Warcraft, which have done tons of research and added trading and subscription tokens to their cash shop.
I'm prepared to move forward regardless of what is decided, but I know if RatLabs wants the most money they can get for development, adding subscription tokens or a few items that are tradeable with free players will yield more funds. Keep in mind, this also helps free players. Someone could theoretically never pay ONE CENT to RatLabs and have subscription and MTX's, for free. People who stay home and play and have the extra gold to trade for these items.
What about a passive ability for Adventurers that they don’t get jumped by NPCs, which fits with their class name anyway. Others can purchase Potions of Indifference to get this for a duration available for a price of 50k per potion or purchase via MTX?
Selling Potions of Indifference solely via MTX is the simple route, but figured selling them for a certain amount of gold too so players have an in-game option.
I thought MTX was supposed to be cosmetic only? You guys are starting to delve into game changing items now, which is not what the MTX is supposed to be. Feel free to bash me again everyone, but again, this should not be a thing in my opinion. If I remember correctly once you get to a certain point, not sure if it is level, or hp or what, but things do not jump you as often or at all, maybe we need to look at that instead of trying to create a mtx item for everything that everyone doesn't like about the playability of the game, and keep the mtx for cosmetic items like it was originally intended and name changes/etc… Flame away.
Oh god, I fully agree with LilGoofsta…
Yeah, MTX should be cosmetic only. Besides, having the potions in there mean that we are removing work for Alchemists. On top of that, paying $1 for a potion that will save you ~20k gold in insurance… not worth it.
I'd pay a few bucks to make that permanent, though. :)
For the love of The Realm can we PLEASE get rare dye drops and rare colored item drops. This game has so many great colors I want to be able to find fleshy boots and Glowies again from monsters.
@Sidhe
Anyone who wants to buy currency for PoE has about 100 sites to choose from, and can get whatever they want within 72 hours of a new league, delivered in about 20 minutes.Realm does not have the following to support RMT in the same way these other games do, but RMT will still continue. Using PoE as an example of a company that has MTX without any trading is cool. (I have about 6 supporter packs since closed beta) but pretending the game isn't P2W for many players is simply not. Any player who wants best in slot gear in the game can get it via RMT.
The problem with Realm is, this game has such a smaller following, it needs money and resources for continued development, and it has a history and track record for RMT. We can all pound the table and pretend it won't happen, but unless trading is completely disabled (any free player can trade freely with anyone at level 1) people will try to RMT.
For every game like Path of Exile, there is also a game like Runescape or World of Warcraft, which have done tons of research and added trading and subscription tokens to their cash shop.
I'm prepared to move forward regardless of what is decided, but I know if RatLabs wants the most money they can get for development, adding subscription tokens or a few items that are tradeable with free players will yield more funds. Keep in mind, this also helps free players. Someone could theoretically never pay ONE CENT to RatLabs and have subscription and MTX's, for free. People who stay home and play and have the extra gold to trade for these items.
Not denying that third party RMT exists. It exists in every game and even the most draconian measures (cough, FFXIV, cough) are not successful at stopping it. That doesn't mean we have to accept the developers of these games WANTING their game to be P2W (so long as they get rich, short term, in the process). When GGG, CCP, Blizzard, Square-Enix, etc. catch RMT, they mercilessly ban, and rightly so.
WoW does have subscription tokens, but it is very difficult to translate them into "winning" given that you can't throw gold coins at Kil`Jaeden until he dies. Yes, you can pay real money for gold so you never have to farm flasks, and I do find that somewhat distasteful. But you can't buy Mythic raid gear, at least not until the content is on such farm status with uberguilds that you can pay for a clear, by which time the community hardly cares. This differs from Realm in that you can buy anything. There's no bleeding edge content so hard that a team of 6 pro gamers can't afford to drop a person to sell you a drop even if it's made bind on pickup.
I'm against them myself, but I wouldn't mind a system like the one I outlined above.
PS: Someone should come through and clean up this forum thread, get it so the ideas are all on the top or something and the bickering should proooobably be moved to another thread.
I did something like this on therealm.online, http://www.therealm.online/Microtransactions
Sorry I wasn't able to respond to you sooner. When you remove the weighted odds and somehow have the creative team capable of making all the content equally desirable, I think the negative aspects of the gamble go away because you're essentially always getting something of the same value. It would be really impressive for them to be able to predict what players are going to value that way though. But yes, it would be way more ethical than weighted odds with clear winners and losers.
Regarding the potions/passive to prevent you from getting jumped, I don’t even think they are needed but just wanted to throw ideas out there. I personally like the sense of danger by getting jumped by higher level NPCs. That sense of danger in the over world has been lacking in a lot of modern games. I miss the early days of EQ1 in ‘99 when you’d be merrily traveling across a zone and all of a sudden a griffon or hill giant decimates you.
this whole thread is nauseating….p2w gtfo,thats all i have to add currently.
Don't worry @TheRealmBeckonsMe, most of us agree with you wholeheartedly and are pushing to make sure that (at least on the initial launch) all items sold in the shop are mundane (non-magical).
this whole thread is nauseating….p2w gtfo,thats all i have to add currently.
There are some solid ideas in this thread, once you filter through the bickering. <3
Do we have a date for when Microtransactions will be going into the game? I'm thinking end of August to coincide with the big update for the Prestige system.
Something to change alignment. that is all I want. I spend many hours of playtime every week, just grinding monsters to change alignment from neutral to good to evil and back. I hate grinding alignment and would rather through gold or money at changing it.
Something to change alignment. that is all I want. I spend many hours of playtime every week, just grinding monsters to change alignment from neutral to good to evil and back. I hate grinding alignment and would rather through gold or money at changing it.
Personally I was thinking if they code this effect it fits beautifully on souls harvested via Duach’s Vengeance. They’re already alignment-based and it would create a neat little in game sub-market for people to pull some value out of souls they don’t want while having the opportunity to stockpile some they’d like at a moment’s notice.
Something to change alignment. that is all I want. I spend many hours of playtime every week, just grinding monsters to change alignment from neutral to good to evil and back. I hate grinding alignment and would rather through gold or money at changing it.
Personally I was thinking if they code this effect it fits beautifully on souls harvested via Duach’s Vengeance. They’re already alignment-based and it would create a neat little in game sub-market for people to pull some value out of souls they don’t want while having the opportunity to stockpile some they’d like at a moment’s notice.
I agree with Sidhe. It seems like a perfect use case for souls.
New Suggestion
Tome of Unbinding - When used you will get a select icon, select an item and it will no longer be bound to your account.
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