Micro transactions Mega Thread

Started by Sam

LilGoofsta

That statement just solidifies that you don't know what P2W means. In order for your theory to stand they would have to not gate the level boost behind MTX and implement a way for it to be obtainable outside of paying cash for it, I understand that your main complaint is you are too lazy to level, but your asking them to make it so you have to put no effort in to level, because you are too lazy to do so and feel that that in itself warrants what you want, 1. you're full of yourself if you think that is correct, and 2. you have gone full retard if you think that your laziness justifies this. lol Many of us have been playing since server launch and taken the good with the bad, get over yourself you're nothing special :)

LilGoofsta

Don't get me wrong though, I fully agree that the dev work on this server has got to be the most assbackwards deving I have ever seen, they are 'voluntary' is the outlet, any legit dev would have been drug through the mud for the job they have done here imo. I appreciate them saving the game from the closet, but I would've rathered it stayed there at times had I known the direction they where going to take it and the large role the 'social circle of the devs' plays. Truth hurts but being in my field and dealing with devs on a daily basis irl, it's laughable to say the least.

Sam

Don't get me wrong though, I fully agree that the dev work on this server has got to be the most assbackwards deving I have ever seen, they are 'voluntary' is the outlet, any legit dev would have been drug through the mud for the job they have done here imo. I appreciate them saving the game from the closet, but I would've rathered it stayed there at times had I known the direction they where going to take it and the large role the 'social circle of the devs' plays. Truth hurts but being in my field and dealing with devs on a daily basis irl, it's laughable to say the least.

Tell me more. :)

LilGoofsta

Don't get me wrong though, I fully agree that the dev work on this server has got to be the most assbackwards deving I have ever seen, they are 'voluntary' is the outlet, any legit dev would have been drug through the mud for the job they have done here imo. I appreciate them saving the game from the closet, but I would've rathered it stayed there at times had I known the direction they where going to take it and the large role the 'social circle of the devs' plays. Truth hurts but being in my field and dealing with devs on a daily basis irl, it's laughable to say the least.

Tell me more. :)

Where do you want me to start? Most of us can't express any concerns or ask any questions related to the game or patches without getting flammed by the devs 'social circle' of silent trolls that only speak up when they feel they need to defend you, you all wash away legit questions/concerns as people 'trolling' so as to avoid having to actually answer the questions, you can't give any insight into anything that happens that we inquire about like the sudden influx of certain items aside from pushing it off as 'rng is rng', rng doesn't dictate that an item drops one time in months then drops 6 times in 1 day, sorry I don't accept that as a valid answer, especially when it is common to certain higher priced items usually, as a company that devs and sells our own software, if we dropped an update then took months fixing it we wouldn't have a client base. Granted ya'll are in a niche market and the players are going to stay no matter what, well, those who haven't already jumped ship. You don't take people trying to buy items/services for RL $ seriously as I have tried to bring this to both Jordan and your attention several times in DMs while we where talking and it has been completely ignored, you guys spout alot of crap to save face, buying items for rl $ will be banned etc etc, but when it comes down to it you don't back the majority of it. Down to posting discord logs of people trying to sell items for $ and it being ignored. You make changes that appeal to the majority of the playerbase while at the same time slapping the minority in the face, and when called on it is when your posse comes out of the wood to talk crap and shut them up. I understand your in this to make money in the long term and the way to do that is to appeal to the masses, but kicking the minorities who have been here all along and GIVEN you viable feedback in the ass, is screwed up. You all significantly changed alot of dynamics based off my streaming the anvil meta at the beginning, granted now none of ya'll will admit to it, i still have the chat logs between you and I where we where discussing the balancing that should be done etc, but now that same person who helped you in the beginning, because im no longer a majority, is just complaining and can be ignored.

Do you want me to keep going or is this enough for now?

Steve

its just my opinion bro, get off my D… time is money, i have more money than time and i wish to do a trade… i didnt post it to have a discussion with you back and forth, if you dont like it, cool, 1 comment and move the fck on. your abrasive attitude and constant bitching about the devs as if you are somehow infallible? please. just let it go or like leave but you wont leave you love being the center of attention too much and since no one gives you any love or affection IRL you CRAVE that shit here. sad reality bro. level up your life

LilGoofsta

its just my opinion bro, get off my D… time is money, i have more money than time and i wish to do a trade… i didnt post it to have a discussion with you back and forth, if you dont like it, cool, 1 comment and move the fck on. your abrasive attitude and constant bitching about the devs as if you are somehow infallible? please. just let it go or like leave but you wont leave you love being the center of attention too much and since no one gives you any love or affection IRL you CRAVE that shit here. sad reality bro. level up your life

Rofl, center of attention. Kid you don't know me or anything about me, what do we know? You want to pay $ to make up for your laziness, I disagreed. You replied, so don't keep the back and forth going if you don't want it. Clearly you are craving a response. I have been just as vocal as I am now, the entire time, haven't changed and don't plan on it, especially not for some two bit chump such as yourself. lmao. GG though

Steve

its just my opinion bro, get off my D… time is money, i have more money than time and i wish to do a trade… i didnt post it to have a discussion with you back and forth, if you dont like it, cool, 1 comment and move the fck on. your abrasive attitude and constant bitching about the devs as if you are somehow infallible? please. just let it go or like leave but you wont leave you love being the center of attention too much and since no one gives you any love or affection IRL you CRAVE that shit here. sad reality bro. level up your life

Rofl, center of attention. Kid you don't know me or anything about me, what do we know? You want to pay $ to make up for your laziness, I disagreed. You replied, so don't keep the back and forth going if you don't want it. Clearly you are craving a response. I have been just as vocal as I am now, the entire time, haven't changed and don't plan on it, especially not for some two bit chump such as yourself. lmao. GG though

pay money for my laziness because im too busy making money? logic OP play your game, let me play mine. me being 1k 2k or even 10k doesnt impact your dungeon run.

LilGoofsta

spin it how you need to try and justify it to yourself, what you recommended effects the server as a whole, surely you aren't so close minded you can't see that? maybe though. sorry I am one to argue that which I don't believe in, if you bring something other then 'i dont have time to level go play your game and let me play mine', then we can argue logic with logic, but when you lack logic, you get what i give. Trust me, I hate arguing with people who can't justify what they are trying to accomplish on a level outside of themselves, but eh, why not. I got nothing better to do while I am 'making money' then to continue to tell you you're wrong, your idea does effect everyone, and you're too close minded to realize it. I eagerly await your next clever response.

Steve

how does it impact you if i can just make myself level 2k for 100 bucks? what do you personally feel as an impact. strictly speaking for levels. show me on the doll where it hurts you

Sam

Don't get me wrong though, I fully agree that the dev work on this server has got to be the most assbackwards deving I have ever seen, they are 'voluntary' is the outlet, any legit dev would have been drug through the mud for the job they have done here imo. I appreciate them saving the game from the closet, but I would've rathered it stayed there at times had I known the direction they where going to take it and the large role the 'social circle of the devs' plays. Truth hurts but being in my field and dealing with devs on a daily basis irl, it's laughable to say the least.

Tell me more. :)

Where do you want me to start? Most of us can't express any concerns or ask any questions related to the game or patches without getting flammed by the devs 'social circle' of silent trolls that only speak up when they feel they need to defend you, you all wash away legit questions/concerns as people 'trolling' so as to avoid having to actually answer the questions, you can't give any insight into anything that happens that we inquire about like the sudden influx of certain items aside from pushing it off as 'rng is rng', rng doesn't dictate that an item drops one time in months then drops 6 times in 1 day, sorry I don't accept that as a valid answer, especially when it is common to certain higher priced items usually, as a company that devs and sells our own software, if we dropped an update then took months fixing it we wouldn't have a client base. Granted ya'll are in a niche market and the players are going to stay no matter what, well, those who haven't already jumped ship. You don't take people trying to buy items/services for RL $ seriously as I have tried to bring this to both Jordan and your attention several times in DMs while we where talking and it has been completely ignored, you guys spout alot of crap to save face, buying items for rl $ will be banned etc etc, but when it comes down to it you don't back the majority of it. Down to posting discord logs of people trying to sell items for $ and it being ignored. You make changes that appeal to the majority of the playerbase while at the same time slapping the minority in the face, and when called on it is when your posse comes out of the wood to talk crap and shut them up. I understand your in this to make money in the long term and the way to do that is to appeal to the masses, but kicking the minorities who have been here all along and GIVEN you viable feedback in the ass, is screwed up. You all significantly changed alot of dynamics based off my streaming the anvil meta at the beginning, granted now none of ya'll will admit to it, i still have the chat logs between you and I where we where discussing the balancing that should be done etc, but now that same person who helped you in the beginning, because im no longer a majority, is just complaining and can be ignored.

Do you want me to keep going or is this enough for now?

We always listen to player feedback, just because we don’t action a specific individuals feedback doesn’t mean we don’t care. I’m sure we’ve talked about a lot of balance issues; that is a bit of a counter argument to your argument.

If your expectation that every change you advocate gets implemented and every change you’re opposed to gets nixed then you should probably move on. That’s never going to happen 100% of the time.

The response to the loot drops that you brought up was accurate. No changes had been made to the loot tables in questions, if you don’t believe that then that’s your issue to deal with. There’s nothing you can do to non-randomize RNG other than add constraints to it. Which we are working on… based off a lot of your feedback as well.

As for the complaint that there is a “social circle” and everyone is out to counter argue anything you say is just absurd. I’ve probably talked to you 10x more than any other player, because I never turn down dialog unless I don’t have the tome to respond.

Please feel free to start a new thread to daylight your issues and keep this one about MTX.

LilGoofsta

how does it impact you if i can just make myself level 2k for 100 bucks? what do you personally feel as an impact. strictly speaking for levels. show me on the doll where it hurts you

I make gold off leveling people, there you go, now we are talking logic. Explain to me how an MTX addition to boost your levels doesn't effect me. Because i work 40-50 hours a week and still have time to have leveled around 30 accounts to 2k, because, again, it does not take that long…

Steve

how does it impact you if i can just make myself level 2k for 100 bucks? what do you personally feel as an impact. strictly speaking for levels. show me on the doll where it hurts you

I make gold off leveling people, there you go, now we are talking logic. Explain to me how an MTX addition to boost your levels doesn't effect me. Because i work 40-50 hours a week and still have time to have leveled around 30 accounts to 2k, because, again, it does not take that long…

i was never going to use your service, youre a scammer, a tool and an overall drain. besides MTX is real money paying goof is gold….. so unless you are getting paid real money there is no competition here sir. and 40-50 hours.. thats cute. i remember my first part time job

LilGoofsta

Well, when you work for pennies I guess you need to overcompensate. lmao. Sorry my RL situation is better then yours bro, hopefully you get that squared away one day maybe then you'll be less of a selfish dbag and have more time to put some logic into your arguments aside from spouting the same crybaby line that everyone does. I tell you your suggestion sucks, and you cry cause i need attention. Sorry I have it better then you bud, if you ever need help let me know I would be more then happy to do some community service leveling your lazy ass, no charge as I wouldn't wanna take food off your table. :'D

Steve

LOL not trying to get into that on this forum but i can promise you i make more. it doesnt matter… ive seen enough images on discord of your life to know im doing just fine lols…enjoy being so miserable man… if thats what "better" looks like ill pass everytime and twice on tuesdays

Malevolent

To be honest, I would rather see a MTX or gold route to levels than handing the keys of your account over to another player and trusting that they don’t strip the account or use your rep to scam others. Goof clearly hasn’t done that and I don’t anticipate him doing it, but I’ve seen it in the past from others.

Goof, regarding the UG drop rate “rng,” it was literally in the patch notes about a month ago that UG drops were getting increased. It hasn’t changed since then apparently, but that’s the reason for the discrepancy.

Steve

To be honest, I would rather see a MTX or gold route to levels than handing the keys of your account over to another player and trusting that they don’t strip the account or use your rep to scam others. Goof clearly hasn’t done that and I don’t anticipate him doing it, but I’ve seen it in the past from others.

Goof, regarding the UG drop rate “rng,” it was literally in the patch notes about a month ago that UG drops were getting increased. It hasn’t changed since then apparently, but that’s the reason for the discrepancy.

100% agree man, if leveling by other players and sharing accs is allowed why cant i buy it with money? less likely to get scammed by Rat Labs than some egotistical, unstable, overweight, overcompensating troll. generally speaking

Sidhe

Wow, this thread necromancy sure exploded my inbox.

So here’s the thing. The Realm can be played one of two ways. Either as a “solo self-found” game where you only play with the equipment you’ve looted yourself, enchanted yourself, etc and never sell anything to another player or pay for another player’s service, or as a PvP game.

Now I don’t mean /yescombat trying to kill each other PvP. Obviously only a subset of players will engage in that. But if you ever sell anything to another player, you are competing with other players trying to sell that item (now or in the near future). The more people with level 2k dungeon slaughtering teams, the more “chase” items entering the economy, and thus the less each player can sell theirs for due to higher competition. It is absolutely impossible to engage in the server economy without competing with other players. If you sell you’re creating supply, and if you buy you’re creating demand. And that’s to say nothing of the world bosses spawning now where the more high levels there are the more competition you have hunting them.

So yes, your buying a team of level 2ks is affecting Goof. And everyone else who runs content in the hopes of getting chase items to sell. If you want to buy your way to higher levels you are 100% asking for something under the umbrella of “pay to win.”

I’ve recently started poking my head into the game again to chat with people, but still not left my house in months. I don’t know the figures on how much money RatLabs is making off their P2W MTX. I can only say anecdotally that I had one account subbed and was leveling up 5 more to mass sub when Prestige came out, and instead they chose P2W and I stopped playing entirely. If other people do the same, eventually it creates ripple effects where people quit playing because their friends quit playing and it’s lonely. Obviously not saying my personal refusal to give money to games with P2W components is bringing down the man or anything, but there are a lot of people who have invested in the MMO community for the past few decades and developed very strong feelings about P2W (and any MTX that feel exploitative). It’s up to each game studio to decide where they want to draw their own line on MTX, both based on profitability and on their beliefs as to what a game should or should not have.

LilGoofsta

Male i agree with gold, honestly not sure why this dbag is still whining i agreed with him to a point, eh lazy people always cry when they dont get there way tho. All good, he still gonna be a selfish crybaby at the end of the day and ima still be enjoying life to the fullest not crying on a forum about not having enough time to play a video game and expecting the world to conform to me. Lmfao. Jealous haters gonna hate i guess, id be salty if i was flippin burgers to support my family cuz i got no life skills also. :( muh feels.

Steve

project less, take ownership more. dont worry man it gets better. you wish my life was that sad… might excuse you for being such a failure and having so many shortcomings… too bad tho.

Steve

Wow, this thread necromancy sure exploded my inbox.

So here’s the thing. The Realm can be played one of two ways. Either as a “solo self-found” game where you only play with the equipment you’ve looted yourself, enchanted yourself, etc and never sell anything to another player or pay for another player’s service, or as a PvP game.

Now I don’t mean /yescombat trying to kill each other PvP. Obviously only a subset of players will engage in that. But if you ever sell anything to another player, you are competing with other players trying to sell that item (now or in the near future). The more people with level 2k dungeon slaughtering teams, the more “chase” items entering the economy, and thus the less each player can sell theirs for due to higher competition. It is absolutely impossible to engage in the server economy without competing with other players. If you sell you’re creating supply, and if you buy you’re creating demand. And that’s to say nothing of the world bosses spawning now where the more high levels there are the more competition you have hunting them.

So yes, your buying a team of level 2ks is affecting Goof. And everyone else who runs content in the hopes of getting chase items to sell. If you want to buy your way to higher levels you are 100% asking for something under the umbrella of “pay to win.”

I’ve recently started poking my head into the game again to chat with people, but still not left my house in months. I don’t know the figures on how much money RatLabs is making off their P2W MTX. I can only say anecdotally that I had one account subbed and was leveling up 5 more to mass sub when Prestige came out, and instead they chose P2W and I stopped playing entirely. If other people do the same, eventually it creates ripple effects where people quit playing because their friends quit playing and it’s lonely. Obviously not saying my personal refusal to give money to games with P2W components is bringing down the man or anything, but there are a lot of people who have invested in the MMO community for the past few decades and developed very strong feelings about P2W (and any MTX that feel exploitative). It’s up to each game studio to decide where they want to draw their own line on MTX, both based on profitability and on their beliefs as to what a game should or should not have.

fair enough and i see your perspective, but that is assuming that i wouldnt have these toons otherwise… maybe gate this ability behind having at least 1 other account that hit 2k… its more of a way to test stats/classes with current meta items/balances.. maybe if there was a way to alter that the level argument at least from me would be over. does that kinda make sense?

Sidhe

I appreciate that you’re considering the ramifications, and yes that would solve some of the issues.

However, let’s thought experiment out how this could work in a real world scenario. I apologize in advance my examples will be from the earlier days of the game because I haven’t played recently, but the concepts should still make sense.

Let’s say you’re a rich guy now with a handful of 2ks and you decide you want to level up a 6 wizard grinder team.

Organic gameplay with no MTX influence might look like the following:
Buy a half a dozen enchsnted Mageblades from players who have them for sale
Enchant some random BoCs and BoNs you have lying around, and buy the rest you need to kit everyone out
Get to grinding
When things start to slow down, buy as many Seer’s Sabers and sets of expert gear you can find for sale, enchant them, and replace any that blew up as many times as it takes for you to be satisfied that it’s time to move on
Sometime on the way to 1k, start kitting your characters out with the “chase” items like EB, HC jewelry, etc.
At 1k, work on collecting the rest as it comes up for sale
Continue for whatever gear there is between 1-2k

What have you sunk out of the economy?
A dozen or so Mageblades and sets of Expert gear once it’s all said and done, due to enchanting explosions and stuff
Enough “high level” items and “chase” spells to optimize your grind to 2k
As much 2k gear as you can get your hands on

Now, the same goal but you can buy levels:
Roll 6 wizards with the stats you want
Buy XP
Start buying the best gear for level 2k
Never waste your money on mageblades, expert gear, seer’s sabers, and other low level gear because it’s not going to speed up your getting to 2k. You’re already 2k.
Work on collecting the rest of the 2k gear as it comes up for sale

What have you sunk out of the economy?
The same amount of 2k gear
The same amount of “chase” spells, unless maybe you skip some because they were good for leveling but not really useful at 2k

So what does all that mean?
Little Timmy who’s just trying to play the game without paying to win finally gets a Seer’s Saber to drop while he’s leveling up his characters. “Hell yeah,” he says! These things have been going for millions! He goes onto the auction channel to sell it. But there are 50 of them for sale because only the other Little Timmies who are leveling up for themselves would need them, and they can’t afford to keep one rare item when they could instead turn it into a full set of enchanted “good” gear. So someone trolls you with an offer for 10k because the Seer’s Saber is the new Vulcan Edge. You can’t give that shit away.

So now as a new player, you have no meaningful way to enter the game’s economy, because ALL the value is concentrated in the items that people at 2k need. It doesn’t matter that not everyone is buying their levels and that some people are running their first characters up to 2k, because that’s much fewer people than if everyone needed leveling gear. The demand can’t keep up with the supply that is already in the game from the pre-buying-level days.

Now, there are things that seem like they will mitigate this. The crafting system is going to create a sink for those low level items and high level players will still pay for them just to melt them down, right?

Well those high level crafted items absolutely must command a value greater than the price of their components, or no one will use the system. So high level weapons are still selling for X * y * z, where x is how many low level items you need for a craft, y is the cost of one of those items, and z is a multiplier for the amount of profit the economy settles on people willing to pay for the craft. If X is too low, you don’t sink enough Seer’s Sabers out of the economy to make a dent in the supply:demand issue I mentioned above. If it’s too high, you’re back to the amount of money a low level player can make being meaningless, because you need to loot dozens of Seer’s Sabers or whatever other relevant low level item to ever be able to afford high level gear.

The whole thing is really, really complicated and I won’t pretend I’ve explained every single detail in this wall of text. You can rip it apart if you want and I’m sure we’d have to debate for days and days about why there’s no silver bullet to make MTX XP not affect the gameplay experience of subscription-only players. I just hope I’ve raised enough points here to illustrate that everything is connected in these online games. How you play as one single player won’t be enough to really alter the course of events, but once more than a handful of people take advantage of cash-for-XP, it puts a strain on the delicate balance of the economy.

Steve

i guess to me, those low level items are already useless and wont be used anyways but i see your POV.. but no one does that anymore, we give that type of gear away anyways. so if we follow your non-real, made up, not applicable scenario… i see your point.

otherwise tho.. youre giving someone who is "done" with the game something else to spend money or time on they normally wouldn't. i guess i think of it like fortnite tiers… you can buy lvl 100 right away but you dont really gain an advantage except sped up access.

btw i misspoke when i said it wouldnt have an impact on others, butterfly effect and all but what i meant was it doesnt give me any kind of an advantage over anyone else, nothing is open to me that isnt open to anyone else, i just get it faster. also if this was a fresh launch i would agree it would be unfair/pay2w but not like it is now.

TheRealmBeckonsMe

Im not sure how big a deal the p2w is,in order for them to benefit they need people to buy the stuff in game and from ive seen its not very expensive. Doesnt seem like anyone is getting "rich" off the mtx. I could b wrong.

Maggius

I would like to see the crafting, armorsmithing, and "someday" weaponsmithing, Items more avalable. make it easier to find them, more hunting and playing the game.

Theoldrealmer

add +magic find potions that add 25% or more better chance to find rare items from monsters that last like 1 week

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