Character Equipment Balances and Future Content Suggestions

Started by Redbeard
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Redbeard (Staff)

Good Evening,

We've been talking a lot over the last few weeks about the current balance of items in the game. With this topic I would like to be as transparent with you all as possible. Below you will find proposed changes to the item progressions in the game. Please when responding to this thread let's keep it civil, and try and provide constructive feedback. Let's not get hung up on current item values or what you've paid for an item. Think long term … these changes are big and we want the support of the community before implementation.

 

Armor sets

It seems that with the current sets only offering single SDM increases for each spell circle it is underwhelming for Casters to wear and unfair that melee characters all benefit from +MDM. As a compromise we are proposing the changes to the armor sets as noted in the below table:

Skill Caster Windwalker's Warlord Level Req.
Familiar No Change. In addition to +5% MDM, +5% Armor Pierce. Change from +5% MDM to +10%. 1
Proficient In addition to +10% Class SDM, +5% to the remaining two. In addition to +10% MDM, +5% Armor Pierce. Change from +10% MDM to +15%. 250
Expert In addition to +15% Class SDM, +10% to the remaining two. In addition to +15% MDM, +5% Armor Pierce. Change from +15% MDM to +20%. 500
Master In addition to +20% Class SDM, +15% to the remaining two. In addition to +20% MDM, +10% Armor Pierce, +5% All SR. Change from +20% MDM to +25% and +5% all SR. 750
Grand-Master In addition to +25% Class SDM, +20% to the remaining two. In addition to +25% MDM, +15% Armor Pierce, +10% All SR. Change from +25% MDM to +30% and +10% all SR. 1000

 

Armor Set Individual Piece Affects

Applying stats to new armor pieces will allow for players to feel more rewarded when finding these rare set pieces. I think it's important that we capitalize on this to create an authentic thrill for the players based on the particular piece to their set.

Type Attribute
Melee Helms +Attack
Caster Helms +Dodge
Cowl +Strength
Chest Proc Lesser Shield
Bracer +Dodge
Legs 5% Armor Reinforcement (Crit Strike Mitigation)
Boots +Dex

 

Class Specific Helms

Thieve's were lacking a class specific helm, and with the recent buff to Helm of Intel we now have room to adjust.

Class Name Affects Level Req.
Wizard Mage's Hat +15% Thaum / Elem / Necro SDM, +10% all SR, +Dodge, +Retention, +Free Will. 425
Adventurer Helm of Intel +10% Thaum / Elem / Necro SDM, +10% MDM, +10% all SR, +Intel, +Retention, +Free Will, +Attack, +Dodge. 425
Thief Thief's Mask +5% Thaum / Elem / Necro SDM, +15% MDM, +5% Armor Pierce, +10% all SR, +Attack, +Retention, +Free Will. 425
Warrior Warrior's Helm +20% MDM, +5% Armor Pierce, +10% all SR, +Attack, +Retention, +Free Will. 425

 

Non-Class Specific Rare Helms

These helms were all created by NG and we're having a hard time fitting them in with our game progression model. Moving the level requirements around and evening out the affects applied to these helms will increase value and utility.

Name Purpose Affects Level Req.
Helm of Khan Broad Stat Range Useability +10% MDM, +10% all SR, 95AR, +Attack, +Endurance, +Retention, Proc Greater Shield. 750
Berserker's Helm High Risk Damage Output +20% MDM, 95AR, +Strength, +Retention, +Proc Berserk. 750
Hood of Shifting Defensive Caster +5% Thaum / Elem / Necro SDM, +10% all SR, 25AR, +Dodge, +Endurance, +5% Melee Phase, Proc Shift. 750
Conquerer's Helm General Purpose Offensive Helm +10% Thaum / Elem / Necro SDM, +10% MDM, +10% all SR, 95AR, +Dodge, +Strength, +Dexterity, +Retention. 500
Fianna's Helm General Purpose Offensive Helm +10% Thaum / Elem / Necro SDM, +10% MDM, +10% all SR, 95AR, +Dodge, +Strength, +Dexterity, +Retention. 500
Helm of Defense General Purpose Defensive Helm +10% all SR, 100AR, +Dodge, +Endurance, Proc Greater Shield. 250
Nightmare Helm General Purpose DMP - DMP is essential at low levels while having low hp pool +5% Thaum / Elem / Necro SDM, +5% all SR, 85AR, DMP. 250
Helm of Predator General Purpose Basic Melee 85AR, +Attack, +Nourishment. 1
Ranger's Helm General Purpose Basic Melee 85AR, +Attack, +Nourishment. 1
Jester's Hat General Purpose Non-Melee 25AR, +Dodge, +Nourishment. 1
Courtier Hat General Purpose Non-Melee 25AR, +Dodge, +Nourishment. 1

 

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Steve

very streamlined, orderly and predictable, but i like it

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Shmaboo

This looks like a good start. I have a minor concern with regard to spell resistances, as to whether they'd be sufficient. Would the plan be for shields, rings and amulets to carry the bulk of the spell resistances, at least below level 750?

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ghouli

Don't quite understand the the HoS level req bump, but besides that, it all seems fine. Also not sure what Class SDM means. But, I just came back like 3 nights ago, so my feedback probably won't mean as much as someone who's been around for a few months at least.

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Sidhe

I'm a little bit concerned about the +all SR on the high end Warlord's gear, especially if all in this case includes mysticism. You're taking an already rather physically tanky armor set primarily used on characters with above average endurance and saying that they can stack on potent spell resist "for free" essentially, since they want to be wearing that gear to maximize damage anyway.

I know there aren't a bunch of alternate armor sets right now to allow players to choose gear to suit different playstyles and situations, but that is kind of what jewelry slots are for. If you get 30/60% SR to all from your most offensive armor set, when are you going to choose amulets like AoFW (and presumably the other spell def amulets if/when they get reworked into usefulness)? This is doubly true if you're using a class helm to get the free will effect.

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Gremio

Seems like mages get shafted by 5% with their mages hat, the other 3 class spec helms add a total of 20% sdm\mdm, mage hat only adds 15% coupled with the +int and +attack the other 3 helms add and all of the armor sets being equal it seems like the mh should offer 20% sdm at a minimum, and potentially +int as well.

Also the Dodge for mages seems useless, most mages stay shifting and the purpose is dps, their helms should have spell critical chance increase, theives should get more dodges as once the claw and dagger are balanced you would expect thieves to be close combat characters.

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TGCid

Thieves can be melee or ranged though. As for the mage getting shafted, I'd say the wizards of the game have been well off for a bit and I highly doubt this will impact them that negatively. Also keep in mind that as wizards level they get stronger and melee builds don't get that aside from a new weapon

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Gremio

Thieves can be melee or ranged though. As for the mage getting shafted, I'd say the wizards of the game have been well off for a bit and I highly doubt this will impact them that negatively. Also keep in mind that as wizards level they get stronger and melee builds don't get that aside from a new weapon

My apologies I thought this was for providing feedback on our thoughts of the original post, not trying to negate feedback from others.

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LilGoofsta

Thieves can be melee or ranged though. As for the mage getting shafted, I'd say the wizards of the game have been well off for a bit and I highly doubt this will impact them that negatively. Also keep in mind that as wizards level they get stronger and melee builds don't get that aside from a new weapon

Again, I don't think the issue is that wizards have been as OP as everyone claims, but that the other classes have been underpowered, I think this proposal brings the characters closer to that of a wizard while giving wizzies a slight boost but not keeping them as far above the other classes as they are currently. I like it.

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Zewpi

Seems like mages get shafted by 5% with their mages hat, the other 3 class spec helms add a total of 20% sdm\mdm, mage hat only adds 15% coupled with the +int and +attack the other 3 helms add and all of the armor sets being equal it seems like the mh should offer 20% sdm at a minimum, and potentially +int as well.

Also the Dodge for mages seems useless, most mages stay shifting and the purpose is dps, their helms should have spell critical chance increase, theives should get more dodges as once the claw and dagger are balanced you would expect thieves to be close combat characters.

On the contrary MH gives a combined 45% across the 3 schools, HoI giving +30% + between 15~45% from the int depending how many int slots are worn - HoI seems the most heavily weighted helm on the list - but with the wide range of stats adventurers need and their relative low power I'd say it's pretty much fine. And really I don't see the point in comparing mdm to sdm as they have completely different scaling ratios so 1% sdm =/= 1% mdm.

Regarding dodge I do agree it's not the most useful - but there aren't many other stats available that aren't already covered elsewhere which wouldn't be overpowered, spell crit would obviously be good; but arguably too strong. Wizards already cannot miss attacks and have free crit chance built in. I believe since the sdm calc change last patch wizards are in a much more balanced spot and are getting everything they need from these proposed changes.


Regarding the actual gear it looks great, very linear progression though which in some ways is good for balancing purposes but in time may feel as if there are no options other than gathering the next level sets. Though it is a definite improvement for the lesser used items; and the addition of the thieves mask.

Hopefully given more time there can be more specialised sets of comparable power for high armour sdm, high armour +end with minus mdm, medium sdm gear, as well as more hybrid items with similar statline to the HoI with obviously lessened stats. Gear like that may go some way towards giving players options in their gear choices and perhaps mixing and matching various sets. As well as negating the argument of wizards having to have 3 sets - if all classes had 3 sets that argument would be null

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OldButNew

I overall like the progression and the adjustments, but I do wonder why not just make it one set of caster gear rather than 3 separate sets? I also think adding intel to the MH with chanting sdm capped at 189 might be a nice addition, allowing wizzies to utilize other rings/amulets once they have their class helm.

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Chas

Hey, Red,

This is a really great post. Thanks for not only doing it, but for the format. It really makes it easy to follow and analyze.

I also appreciate that everything has an identity. I know this was one of my comments in the NMH thread and something that I believe is really important, and it helps for us all to know what your vision for the item is when weighing in.

A few thoughts:

a) There's no Nourish, DMP, Free Will, or Retention on set gear. Is this by design or an oversight? I understand not having all these stats available at level 1 on familiar gear, but do think that having a lot of these stats only on non-set gear will devalue set gear. I realize that having to make a choice isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I guess just wanted to make sure that making this hard choice is by design.

b) As a followup to the end of that previous point, for example, the Warrior Helm at level 425 is better in every way than the Expert Warlord's at 500, and arguably better than Master and GM Warlord's also. I guess GM starts to rival it, but Master seems inferior to me. Master is 5% more MDM, but at the cost of 5% resist, 5% armor pen, retention and free will. I don't think 5% MDM is worth losing all those stats and 300 levels. Perhaps if helms starting at Master level provided Free Will, for example, it would be more in line (just an example that I spent no time thinking about so recognize may be a poor one, but used as illustration only)

c) Just a minor general point that I assume helms will be redistributed as it wouldn't make sense for things like Jester to be only from Anvil.

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TGCid

Thieves can be melee or ranged though. As for the mage getting shafted, I'd say the wizards of the game have been well off for a bit and I highly doubt this will impact them that negatively. Also keep in mind that as wizards level they get stronger and melee builds don't get that aside from a new weapon

My apologies I thought this was for providing feedback on our thoughts of the original post, not trying to negate feedback from others.

Lord you are something else. That was feedback, thieves can be melee or ranged and assuming they can only be melee is incorrect feedback that needed corrected, not trying to negate your feedback so let's not get all butt hurt there buddy. Overall I like the ideas behind the gear. The streamlining is good and the gear sounds like it will bring melee classes up to the level of casters.

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Khego

This is generally great and I love the communication. A few notes:

Spell Resistance:

I think it's too easy to get 75% resistance to everything. You should have to make a choice whether you want the resistance (defense) or offense. This also would force more interesting decisions on your weapon/shield choice. If I already have 75% resistance naturally through armor/rings I'd wear anyways, why would I consider a defensive helmet or shield?

HoZ/HoK/Warlord Choice

Make HoZ your DPS/offensive choice (Boost MDM, Remove Zerk, Add +Defenselessness). Make HoK your defensive tank choice (Remove Attack and MDM, Boost SR, Add DMP). And the Warlord piece becomes your "balanced" choice.

EDIT: I kind of overlooked the Warrior Helmet, so I see that being your balanced helm with the Warlord being more DPS. Although I can't fathom an endgame dungeon where I'd prefer 10% MDM over +Free WIll. I withdrawl my statement about HoZ and think yeah, you just leave it as a weird meme helm.

Hybrid Armor

I have a separate post in the Feedback forums about this. This game is fairly simple. You hit well, you cast well or you do both averagely. If I want the latter play style I'm kind of forced to mix and match cloth and metal armor. Feels bad, especially if we ever see set bonuses. An additional armor set split between wizard and warlord sets would be very cool. Example: Expert Adventurer Boots +8% SDM All, +8% MDM, Dex, 45 AR.

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MatchingPlaid

I'm curious about how HoZ would be used in this scenario. First, I've never gotten a HoZ the entire time I've played this game, so go easy on me… If it is a proc now you don't get the "bonus" round before the fight fully starts, right? I thought that was the only reason to use HoZ, otherwise you could just not use it and have an opportunity to take potions/spells or whatever to keep you alive during the later parts of the fight. I feel like I'm missing something, does this berserk give you extra damage or an additional attack (besides from the helmet)? Also, if you are in a group and it procs would you then have the potential to attack your party member?

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Sidhe

Following with what Khego said:

I focused on the Warlord’s set in my post above because I think it may be the most powerful set by far as proposed, but Khego is very right that the proposed stats limit design space for all sets.

If you later decide to add separate armor sets with offensive and defensive leanings, you’d almost have to be looking at a nerf to these existing sets, as right now they let you can defense as a free byproduct of gearing for offense. To avoid the feelsbadman of that later I think it’s okay to be a little more conservative now.

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Endal

Spell Resistance:

I think it's too easy to get 75% resistance to everything. You should have to make a choice whether you want the resistance (defense) or offense. This also would force more interesting decisions on your weapon/shield choice. If I already have 75% resistance naturally through armor/rings I'd wear anyways, why would I consider a defensive helmet or shield?

I agree with this entirely, especially for the fighter side. Perhaps have it so that if you want the full 75% you need a shield so that we can bring in the benefits of a sword-n-board build. I've also always thought it would be great if we could get a tank skill out there so that you can taunt the baddies to attack you instead of others. Strap someone into 100AR gear with a 75% shield and 75% Magical resistances, DMP, FW, etc… and make it so that they're a damage sponge instead of a hitter.

For Mages it makes sense to get the resistance, but I think that it should come from the knowledge of the schools, you get resistance to a certain field of mage based on your stats

L1, 5%
L2, 10%
L3, 15%
L4, 20%
L5, 25%
L6, 30%
(etc)

But I think that this should only work for the Wizard class, the other classes can get some aspect of this (1% per level for fighter/thief and 2% for Adventurer), just to keep that balance in place.

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Khego

At the risk of getting these items nerfed… Two HC Rings + HC Amulet (Assassin, Magician, Soldier) is already 60% resistance to Thaum/Necro/Elem.

So anything past 15% on an item and we're only looking for Mysticism Resistance anyways.

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Zewpi

I agree spell resist shouldn't be thrown around on as many pieces as it is, and that the HC items are giving too much of it away as baseline for such a low level req (despite the content being high level). It means when prestiging you'll be able to have 75% SR extremely early without having to specialise for it at all. The HC items honestly should be nerfed, especially if there is going to be any room for future jewellery like we saw on MW.


@Endal

But I think that this should only work for the Wizard class, the other classes can get some aspect of this (1% per level for fighter/thief and 2% for Adventurer), just to keep that balance in place.

This system works in other games because wizards actually have a vulnerability to physical damage, but in the realm where they're the only utility class and invuln exists, they have much more durability than they philosophically should have so.. Unless wizards gain some dramatic physical vulnerability and literally fall over at the sight of a knight within 2sqs, spell resist should be available to all classes in the same way. Though I sort of like the idea of them gaining bonus spell resistance in some form - perhaps a prestige bonus to increase their resistance cap to damage schools to 80 or 85?


Sort of feeds back into my original post here, while I like the balance and progression it detracts from players options. Though it is undoubtedly a vast improvement, in the future you guys should look into making some "weird" one off slots which do a bit of this, a bit of that and cover the purposes of a different slot (bracers with unarmed attack bonuses instead of dodge, or a legs that give str instead of crit damage reduction) so there's choices to be made. Weird items have a very big appeal. #neverforget all the pants that gave various immolations and +(fire/cold/lightning/acid/rust) to unarmed attacks. Things like that are really interesting and can be enable entire builds.

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Vickstress

I don't think the SR should be nerfed, some of us can't do HC, and can't get the get the SR gear like you guys who live with poop socks by your sides playing this game.

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LilGoofsta

I have noticed a realm common theme of those who put the effort in and do well getting crap from other players, as the poop sock comment above ^, as like everything else in life, you get out what you put in. Can we stop bashing on us because we are doing better then ya'll?

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Zewpi

I have noticed a realm common theme of those who put the effort in and do well getting crap from other players, as the poop sock comment above ^, as like everything else in life, you get out what you put in. Can we stop bashing on us because we are doing better then ya'll?

assuming that's at me? :* you're looking short term, and i'm not suggesting the nerf happens immediately.. More like, it gets nerfed when they're intending to put the next tier of jewellery in - though it should really just be baselined now as a means of progression so people don't cry on patch day… each time a new tier gets nerfed to make room for character growth.

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EoD_RealmBoy

For once, I have not much to say. I think the improvements look good. The only thing i'd say is I'd like to see atleast one piece of jewelry that is class specific added to the game, without taking away current options. I like the helmet changes.

Would also consider eventually some rare cosmetic variations of items, just to add a little more excitement. IMO its a little less exciting to find "EXPERT ITEM X" than "THE PANTS OF POWER". but I understand the system, and why its being used.

Good work sir.

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Shmaboo

I like Rookie's idea of snazzier names for armor. An Expert Necromancer's Shirt is fine, but I'd farm for days to get a Demonic Cardigan.

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Vickstress

I wasn't slamming anyone in particular, just making a reference, that not everyone else, thinks that wizzies be nerfed. I play this game for "enjoyment", not a serious business. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toe's, I thought that what Red did was a great, and needs no changes. I can have an opinion too, and not get bashed for it please, and thank you.

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Redbeard (Staff)

Thanks for the feedback. I've compiled some notes and will work on a round two iteration. I too would like to see hybrid sets, and with the impending prestige updates I think we will get there.

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Redbeard (Staff)

To add some more food for thought; I have talked a bit about class specific roles that I would like to see added as part of the prestige update.

 

Prestige System

With each prestige the XP the player receives will be reduced.

Players could pick one of these options for their respective classes:

  • Warrior
    Warrior's Bastion (cast Warrior spell): Absorb's Damage taken by entire team and diverts said damage to the caster for one round.
    Melee Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Attack affect to the character.
    Upgrade two-handed weapons to Skill 6 (Veteran): 10% Chance for two-handed weapon to cleave (AoE)

  • Thief
    Thief's Haste (cast Thief spell): Increase movement rate of the character by a multiple of two for three rounds.
    Agile Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Dodge affect to the character.
    Upgrade one handed weapon skill to Skill 6 (Veteran): If skill is claw or dagger chance to bleed target, target cannot be healed while bleeding. Target must use "Healing" skill to close the wound.

  • Wizard
    Thaum Perfection: Ability to cast Mass Heal (Mini Heal Only)
    Necro Perfection: Ability to cast Poison Barrage (AoE Poison Bolt)
    Elem Perfection: Ability to cast Summon Elemental
    Myst Perfection: Ability to cast Cloud of Fog (apply melee phase to the cloud for xx rounds, this is the melee equivalent of anti-magic aura)
    Sorcerer's Attunement: Ability to take Sorcery SDM to 201% for the chance to 6x gear

  • Adventurer
    Can choose from any of the above
    Can choose a permanent encumbrance bonus that stacks with BoC

 

Features
  • Guild Support
    Ability to create a guild with a unique four letter abbreviation
    Display guild affiliation in game via text
    Guild Halls

  • War Zones
    Work like Hot Zones, but 2x XP instead of 50% more
    Chance at PvP bounty when killing non-guild mates
    Forced /yescombat while in zone. If you jump someone you’re /tescombat for 30 days like normal
    Receive non-engraveable skull with opponents name on it with home owner attribute

  • House Updates
    Cellars
    Quick win, just need a WLD Room definition.

  • Salvaging System
    5 Tiers of salvaging; Level 1+, Level 250+, Level 500+, Level 750+, Level 1000
    Salvaging will be a have a roll for either sovereigns or crafting materials random(0,1) 1= Sovereigns
    Each tier will reward player with a random amount of sovereigns or crafting materials for Tier 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 weapons and armor caches:
    T1 = (0-1) currency, T2 = (1-2), T3 = (2-3), T4 = (3-4), T5 = (4-5)

 

Shelved Ideas due to too much change
  • Racial Stat Gate removal
    Remove stat gates from races, base it on profession
    Added passive racial abilities. Could just give inherent resist to different spell types.
    Requires secondary client to decouple from legacy client
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ImLost

Red,
Overall it looks fairly good.

The only thing I would like to see is a 15-20% higher base AR for the wizzie gear without it getting heavier than it already is.

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Endal

Sorcerer's Attunement: Ability to take Sorcery SDM to 201% for the chance to 6x gear

I'm not a fan of this. I like the idea that the 189 SDM is the max allowed for Perm/Enchant. Would there be a way to allow for SDM to go up with the Enchant/Perm skills having a plateau at 189sdm?

Also, I really think it would be great if we could do some Racial bonuses instead of Class bonuses. I know you said there were some issues with that in the game code, but having it so that a human could get a Human Versatility +1 in another stat, Giants get a toughness trait (extra HP), Orcs get a ferocity trait (extra Str) and Elves get a nimble trait (extra dex).

Or another obvious option would be that for each Prestige you perform, you get another +1 to any stat regardless of your race. I still think Enchant/Perm should plateau at 189sdm, though ;)

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yuttas

The prestige abilities look neat. My only comment would be that thieves never really end up in the damage absorption role, they are always present to provide damage. Also, warriors do both, sometimes they are there to absorb and sometimes they are there to be a wrecking ball.

It seems more natural to me to have thieves getting an extra combat round via prestige, perhaps warriors should also be given the option to get an extra dodge? Honestly it may make the most sense for both warrior and thief to have access to both dodge and extra attack.

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TGCid

If the classes were truly balanced I'd imagine it would be akin to Warrior=Tank, Wizard=CrowdControl, Thieves=DPS, Adventurer=Jack of All Trades. A lot of games use that "template" but Realm is an odd beast in ways.

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LilGoofsta

Wizards usually better at ranged damage/aoe as well, not primarily CC imo

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yuttas

Yeah i wasn’t entirely sure on their vision of the classes, I think a more standard interpretation would be extra attack round for thief and extra dodge for warrior, but I know warriors can put out big numbers. Just seems odd to have dodge on the thief that isn’t really there for taking hits l.

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ustoc

I think thieves are very much throwing daggers as well can their prestige include that? They are squishy and being in melee isn't ideal so I would take added crit or attack over dodge.

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Khego

With each prestige the XP the player receives will be reduced.

I think this only irritates casuals. Hardcores are going to get there regardless.

  • Warrior
    Warrior's Bastion (cast Warrior spell): Absorb's Damage taken by entire team and diverts said damage to the caster for one round.

If this is spam-able… It's pretty meta defining. Assume any endgame dungeon would want an "all-end" toon doing this every round. If that's the intent, I think you got it. If not the intent, may want a cool-down or high mana cost. I personally love the idea of "tanking" in Realm but also don't want to feel obligated to cast the same thing every single turn, every single fight.

  • Thief
    Thief's Haste (cast Thief spell): Increase movement rate of the character by a multiple of two for three rounds.
    Agile Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Dodge affect to the character.
    Upgrade one handed weapon skill to Skill 6 (Veteran): If skill is claw or dagger chance to bleed target, target cannot be healed while bleeding. Target must use "Healing" skill to close the wound.

Doesn't feel like there's much choice here. What do I pick I want to remain a thrower thief? Unclear what movement rate really does for me.

  • Wizard
    Thaum Perfection: Ability to cast Mass Heal (Mini Heal Only)
    Necro Perfection: Ability to cast Poison Barrage (AoE Poison Bolt)
    Elem Perfection: Ability to cast Summon Elemental
    Myst Perfection: Ability to cast Cloud of Fog (apply melee phase to the cloud for xx rounds, this is the melee equivalent of anti-magic aura)
    Sorcerer's Attunement: Ability to take Sorcery SDM to 201% for the chance to 6x gear

Love the new spell concepts. I hope they're considered when creating new content. Something like additional poison weakness, or a specific mob type with poison weakness. The elemental, I'm not sure. It sounds super fun, but summons have always been very fringy for usefulness and most end game dungeons can banish them ezpz.

  • Adventurer
    Can choose from any of the above
    Can choose a permanent encumbrance bonus that stacks with BoC

Yuussssss :sword emoji:

Shelved Ideas due to too much change
  • Racial Stat Gate removal
    Remove stat gates from races, base it on profession
    Added passive racial abilities. Could just give inherent resist to different spell types.
    Requires secondary client to decouple from legacy client

Don't listen to the snowflakes. Do what you think is best for your game.

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Vickstress

Sounds great Red, thanks so much for all the hard work you do.

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Neeley

Is the plan for the prestige system to allow your character to select one of their class ability EACH time they prestige or just once? Seems like a big payoff for adventurers after multiple prestiges. Also - with the opening up of these different possible character builds are there plans in the future to open up additional character slots or is this impossible all together?

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Redbeard (Staff)

Is the plan for the prestige system to allow your character to select one of their class ability EACH time they prestige or just once? Seems like a big payoff for adventurers after multiple prestiges. Also - with the opening up of these different possible character builds are there plans in the future to open up additional character slots or is this impossible all together?

It's not impossible to open up additional character slots, but the game model is based on 4 characters per account. You'll be able to choose from one of these each time you prestige, and the pool of things to pick from as you prestige will get better. This is just the "1st Prestige" ideas. "2nd Prestige" will offer an entirely different set of abilities.

Prestige 2 will bring with it different specializations; this one is just based on the current feedback of "I want a tanking ability to use with a warrior or I want daggers and claws to matter".

Hope this clears up you concern with the throwers @Khego. I see all sorts of dynamic things happening as we progress and continually keep the end game ever green. Ideally after a few prestiges you'll have defensive builds, offensive builds, or a decent hybrid for all classes. This is just the first pass. :)

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Zewpi

With each prestige the XP the player receives will be reduced.

Went over this on the discord, personally I am ok with it as long as the exp increase isn't absolutely giant, as like @Khego said, the only people it will frustrate / gate are the very casual players which may limit the majority of the playerbase accessing the system - especially the later tiers of prestige. Whereas the hardcore will get there regardless how the exp scales. Though I do believe there should be some difficulty ramp in progressing as SLord showed us on MW how quickly you can prestige if you really want to so this ones entirely in your court.


Warrior's Bastion (cast Warrior spell): Absorb's Damage taken by entire team and diverts said damage to the caster for one round.
Melee Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Attack affect to the character.
Upgrade two-handed weapons to Skill 6 (Veteran): 10% Chance for two-handed weapon to cleave (AoE)

The warrior ones seem well thought out, i.e. : You have a tank one, a pure dps one and a "utility" aoe ability. Awesome, in isolation.


Thief
Thief's Haste (cast Thief spell): Increase movement rate of the character by a multiple of two for three rounds.
Agile Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Dodge affect to the character.
Upgrade one handed weapon skill to Skill 6 (Veteran): If skill is claw or dagger chance to bleed target, target cannot be healed while bleeding. Target must use "Healing" skill to close the wound.

Thief you have two utility options and a defensive even though I would never pick a thief for it's defensive capabilities. It has "meh" armour and hp pool compared to a warrior and should really have a pure dps option, but perhaps that's just me; +1 dodge is very very weak. Also "Increase movement rate of the character by a multiple of two for three rounds" of THE character - as in the one casting? Assuming it's a thief it will have high enough movement to catch any target anyway, and boosting someone else for two/three rounds probably isn't even a dps gain by the time you account for the thief not attacking at all the round it uses the ability. The only time it may be useful is boosting your warrior vs a shifting target or if he is rusted. Vs a shifter i'd likely still use my thrower thief anyway given the higher hit rate of dex on those targets. It will probably have pvp applications though. Perhaps Thief's haste should be party wide for 2 rounds? - Would have to test it out personally to see how it really plays into combat scenarios.

  • Ignore everything I said about Thief's Haste if it is usable out of combat to pre-buff your party.

Wizard
Thaum Perfection: Ability to cast Mass Heal (Mini Heal Only)
Necro Perfection: Ability to cast Poison Barrage (AoE Poison Bolt)
Elem Perfection: Ability to cast Summon Elemental
Myst Perfection: Ability to cast Cloud of Fog (apply melee phase to the cloud for xx rounds, this is the melee equivalent of anti-magic aura)
Sorcerer's Attunement: Ability to take Sorcery SDM to 201% for the chance to 6x gear

Wizard all sound very cool;

  • Thaum could be amazing like a more efficient version of EB - though it could be completely useless depending how "mini" it is.
  • Poison barrage, can't really go wrong.
  • Summon Elemental could be amazing, and could be incredibly weak depending how well they scale, if they have 20k~ hp like the enemy summons then they'll be amazing in non-banish content.
  • Cloud of fog - melee AMA, going to be amazingly powerful when used correctly, though it will perhaps improve the relative power of wizard stacks by a whole lot as there's literally no downside to permanently maintaining it for them, could punish having group diversity.

Features - all awesome.


Shelved ideas - Sad face, but understandable.


I love the ideas going forward, but also agree with a lot of the other people here that it seems as though thief ideas are pretty lacking at least for prestige 1, seems as though there's only one option for pve and one for pvp, whereas the other classes all have great options depending what role you wish to fill. Also seems odd that warriors get the +1 atk even though they scale with attacks far harder than thief given the 2h use + ~400%+ MDM. I love the idea of ADV taking from any of them which is definitely a huge buff to adv, yet still seems balanced.

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Malfiore

I only really play Thief now, so my thoughts are pretty specific.

If I read this right, and Prestige 1 is a career-defining choice between Thief's Haste, Agile Perfection, and Veteran Claw/Dagger, I can't see any circumstance in which anyone will ever take Agile Perfection (+1 dodge is super underwhelming).Thief's Haste is a weird concept, but maybe could be used to make shift-melee thieves more viable by allowing them to run all over the screen… except that the final alternative is also a melee ability, to "bleed" a target and prevent it healing, which sounds like a game-changer for PVP and (high-end) PVE.

On top of that, say I did have Veteran Claw/Dagger and wanted to bleed a self-healing PVE target. I can easily imagine myself sacrificing a turn to swap back to thrower as soon as the bleed is applied, because thrower puts out so much more damage in practice. Dagger damage isn't enough to justify the short range, and claws… same min-max as thrower, but way less opportunity to deal that damage, and the pain of being caught unshifted in a high-level mob of NPCs is simply way more than any thief can lifesteal through with a FIVE claw…

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Chas

The thief bleed one is the clear "must take" for every thief, however I just wanted to drop a note and say that the dodge one has its place and isn't as bad as it seems at first glance. Not every thief is a thrower and those that aren't would benefit from the dodge pretty heavily.

Honestly non-throwers would probably benefit from the dodge "more" than bleed in that you aren't always fighting something that heals, yet bleed would still be the must take just to deal with things like holy caves.

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Malfiore

The thief bleed one is the clear "must take" for every thief, however I just wanted to drop a note and say that the dodge one has its place and isn't as bad as it seems at first glance. Not every thief is a thrower and those that aren't would benefit from the dodge pretty heavily.

But realistically, what is the place of taking +1 dodge instead of melee bleed for a non-thrower thief? Especially if warriors are getting tanking skills and wizards can potentially get group-healing skills, indirectly making thiefs more survivable in a mixed party and better specialised as DPS-utility types.

Like you say, bleed would be game-changing in Holy Caves, and endgame monsters self-healing seems pretty standard everywhere (from imp kings to furies to fire wasps.) But I can't think of any content where one more dodge per round is going to matter.

as an aside, I'd also suggest that even for those who want to play melee thief, it's still important to carry and use a thrower. Seems to me that never using a thrower on a thief is like using only one spell school on a wizard; specialisation is clearly going to be a thing, but you wouldn't stop healing on a wizard just because you picked the mass venom prestige, for example. Different tools for different fights :)

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Chas

There is no situation where you pass on the bleed in my mind.

This isn't because of dodge being undesirable or weak, it's just that the anti-healing bleed concept is too valuable to pass up.

I guess my point wasn't that you'd take the dodge over bleed, it was just that dodge as a prestige option has merit. Dodge is valuable as we all know or none of us would take Acrobatics yet we all do.

Another dodge is actually arguably more frequently valuable than the bleed - the dodge will bring value in all content prior to fire wasps and holy caves level stuff (like when you start over at level 1 after prestiging and are doing imp city) but, yes, we agree that the bleed is "must take".

I honestly don't know what they could put up against the anti-heal concept that would make it so anyone chose something other than bleed on first prestige. I'd take the bleed over +10% mdm, or +1 attack, or whatever. Not because those things aren't valuable, but because the proposed bleed would just be a "must take".

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Zewpi

There is no situation where you pass on the bleed in my mind.

This isn't because of dodge being undesirable or weak, it's just that the anti-healing bleed concept is too valuable to pass up.

I guess my point wasn't that you'd take the dodge over bleed, it was just that dodge as a prestige option has merit. Dodge is valuable as we all know or none of us would take Acrobatics yet we all do.

Another dodge is actually arguably more frequently valuable than the bleed - the dodge will bring value in all content prior to fire wasps and holy caves level stuff (like when you start over at level 1 after prestiging and are doing imp city) but, yes, we agree that the bleed is "must take".

I honestly don't know what they could put up against the anti-heal concept that would make it so anyone chose something other than bleed on first prestige. I'd take the bleed over +10% mdm, or +1 attack, or whatever. Not because those things aren't valuable, but because the proposed bleed would just be a "must take".

I agree that as an individual choice it's pretty much the clear cut PvE option, however, if running more than 2 thieves or thief + adventurer combo you may have the debuff covered in which case the other options should become more desirable, however the current options do not become more desirable even if I already have the debuff in my group. Therein lays the issue for myself.

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Malevolent

I’m pretty late to the party here, but I agree 100% with Khego in that I’d like to see the HoK take the defensive role and the HoZ as the offensive. His suggestion of boosting the MDM even more and replacing berserk with defenselessness sounds like a great solution (high risk high reward). I also support shelving the stat gate removal due to feasibility. All in all, I’m pretty happy with the direction we are headed.

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Shmaboo

Does the idea of Sorcerer's Attunement mean that there won't be a skill level of 6 for meditation? An extra level in med should take a 189 to 204.

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Vickstress

I don't think leveling should be made more difficult. It will make a majority of casual players or slower paced players, such as myself, a little upset. Not all of us super level, so please take that into consideration. Thank you.

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Malevolent

I agree with Vickstress. Keeping the same difficulty of the 1-1000 grind after prestiging seems to be the best route in my opinion. Scaling the difficulty up would create a large progression gap that would be discouraging for newcomers.

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Gremio

Does the idea of Sorcerer's Attunement mean that there won't be a skill level of 6 for meditation? An extra level in med should take a 189 to 204.

Meditation LvL 6 would not increase the Enchantment and Permanency SDM cap of 189, Sorcerer's Attunement will allow the SDM for Enchant/Perm to increase.