I wasn't slamming anyone in particular, just making a reference, that not everyone else, thinks that wizzies be nerfed. I play this game for "enjoyment", not a serious business. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toe's, I thought that what Red did was a great, and needs no changes. I can have an opinion too, and not get bashed for it please, and thank you.
Thanks for the feedback. I've compiled some notes and will work on a round two iteration. I too would like to see hybrid sets, and with the impending prestige updates I think we will get there.
To add some more food for thought; I have talked a bit about class specific roles that I would like to see added as part of the prestige update.
With each prestige the XP the player receives will be reduced.
Players could pick one of these options for their respective classes:
Warrior
Warrior's Bastion (cast Warrior spell): Absorb's Damage taken by entire team and diverts said damage to the caster for one round.
Melee Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Attack affect to the character.
Upgrade two-handed weapons to Skill 6 (Veteran): 10% Chance for two-handed weapon to cleave (AoE)
Thief
Thief's Haste (cast Thief spell): Increase movement rate of the character by a multiple of two for three rounds.
Agile Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Dodge affect to the character.
Upgrade one handed weapon skill to Skill 6 (Veteran): If skill is claw or dagger chance to bleed target, target cannot be healed while bleeding. Target must use "Healing" skill to close the wound.
Wizard
Thaum Perfection: Ability to cast Mass Heal (Mini Heal Only)
Necro Perfection: Ability to cast Poison Barrage (AoE Poison Bolt)
Elem Perfection: Ability to cast Summon Elemental
Myst Perfection: Ability to cast Cloud of Fog (apply melee phase to the cloud for xx rounds, this is the melee equivalent of anti-magic aura)
Sorcerer's Attunement: Ability to take Sorcery SDM to 201% for the chance to 6x gear
Adventurer
Can choose from any of the above
Can choose a permanent encumbrance bonus that stacks with BoC
Guild Support
Ability to create a guild with a unique four letter abbreviation
Display guild affiliation in game via text
Guild Halls
War Zones
Work like Hot Zones, but 2x XP instead of 50% more
Chance at PvP bounty when killing non-guild mates
Forced /yescombat while in zone. If you jump someone you’re /tescombat for 30 days like normal
Receive non-engraveable skull with opponents name on it with home owner attribute
House Updates
Cellars
Quick win, just need a WLD Room definition.
Salvaging System
5 Tiers of salvaging; Level 1+, Level 250+, Level 500+, Level 750+, Level 1000
Salvaging will be a have a roll for either sovereigns or crafting materials random(0,1) 1= Sovereigns
Each tier will reward player with a random amount of sovereigns or crafting materials for Tier 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 weapons and armor caches:
T1 = (0-1) currency, T2 = (1-2), T3 = (2-3), T4 = (3-4), T5 = (4-5)
Red,
Overall it looks fairly good.
The only thing I would like to see is a 15-20% higher base AR for the wizzie gear without it getting heavier than it already is.
Sorcerer's Attunement: Ability to take Sorcery SDM to 201% for the chance to 6x gear
I'm not a fan of this. I like the idea that the 189 SDM is the max allowed for Perm/Enchant. Would there be a way to allow for SDM to go up with the Enchant/Perm skills having a plateau at 189sdm?
Also, I really think it would be great if we could do some Racial bonuses instead of Class bonuses. I know you said there were some issues with that in the game code, but having it so that a human could get a Human Versatility +1 in another stat, Giants get a toughness trait (extra HP), Orcs get a ferocity trait (extra Str) and Elves get a nimble trait (extra dex).
Or another obvious option would be that for each Prestige you perform, you get another +1 to any stat regardless of your race. I still think Enchant/Perm should plateau at 189sdm, though ;)
The prestige abilities look neat. My only comment would be that thieves never really end up in the damage absorption role, they are always present to provide damage. Also, warriors do both, sometimes they are there to absorb and sometimes they are there to be a wrecking ball.
It seems more natural to me to have thieves getting an extra combat round via prestige, perhaps warriors should also be given the option to get an extra dodge? Honestly it may make the most sense for both warrior and thief to have access to both dodge and extra attack.
If the classes were truly balanced I'd imagine it would be akin to Warrior=Tank, Wizard=CrowdControl, Thieves=DPS, Adventurer=Jack of All Trades. A lot of games use that "template" but Realm is an odd beast in ways.
Wizards usually better at ranged damage/aoe as well, not primarily CC imo
Yeah i wasn’t entirely sure on their vision of the classes, I think a more standard interpretation would be extra attack round for thief and extra dodge for warrior, but I know warriors can put out big numbers. Just seems odd to have dodge on the thief that isn’t really there for taking hits l.
I think thieves are very much throwing daggers as well can their prestige include that? They are squishy and being in melee isn't ideal so I would take added crit or attack over dodge.
With each prestige the XP the player receives will be reduced.
I think this only irritates casuals. Hardcores are going to get there regardless.
- Warrior
Warrior's Bastion (cast Warrior spell): Absorb's Damage taken by entire team and diverts said damage to the caster for one round.
If this is spam-able… It's pretty meta defining. Assume any endgame dungeon would want an "all-end" toon doing this every round. If that's the intent, I think you got it. If not the intent, may want a cool-down or high mana cost. I personally love the idea of "tanking" in Realm but also don't want to feel obligated to cast the same thing every single turn, every single fight.
- Thief
Thief's Haste (cast Thief spell): Increase movement rate of the character by a multiple of two for three rounds.
Agile Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Dodge affect to the character.
Upgrade one handed weapon skill to Skill 6 (Veteran): If skill is claw or dagger chance to bleed target, target cannot be healed while bleeding. Target must use "Healing" skill to close the wound.
Doesn't feel like there's much choice here. What do I pick I want to remain a thrower thief? Unclear what movement rate really does for me.
- Wizard
Thaum Perfection: Ability to cast Mass Heal (Mini Heal Only)
Necro Perfection: Ability to cast Poison Barrage (AoE Poison Bolt)
Elem Perfection: Ability to cast Summon Elemental
Myst Perfection: Ability to cast Cloud of Fog (apply melee phase to the cloud for xx rounds, this is the melee equivalent of anti-magic aura)
Sorcerer's Attunement: Ability to take Sorcery SDM to 201% for the chance to 6x gear
Love the new spell concepts. I hope they're considered when creating new content. Something like additional poison weakness, or a specific mob type with poison weakness. The elemental, I'm not sure. It sounds super fun, but summons have always been very fringy for usefulness and most end game dungeons can banish them ezpz.
- Adventurer
Can choose from any of the above
Can choose a permanent encumbrance bonus that stacks with BoC
Yuussssss :sword emoji:
Shelved Ideas due to too much change
- Racial Stat Gate removal
Remove stat gates from races, base it on profession
Added passive racial abilities. Could just give inherent resist to different spell types.
Requires secondary client to decouple from legacy client
Don't listen to the snowflakes. Do what you think is best for your game.
Sounds great Red, thanks so much for all the hard work you do.
Is the plan for the prestige system to allow your character to select one of their class ability EACH time they prestige or just once? Seems like a big payoff for adventurers after multiple prestiges. Also - with the opening up of these different possible character builds are there plans in the future to open up additional character slots or is this impossible all together?
Is the plan for the prestige system to allow your character to select one of their class ability EACH time they prestige or just once? Seems like a big payoff for adventurers after multiple prestiges. Also - with the opening up of these different possible character builds are there plans in the future to open up additional character slots or is this impossible all together?
It's not impossible to open up additional character slots, but the game model is based on 4 characters per account. You'll be able to choose from one of these each time you prestige, and the pool of things to pick from as you prestige will get better. This is just the "1st Prestige" ideas. "2nd Prestige" will offer an entirely different set of abilities.
Prestige 2 will bring with it different specializations; this one is just based on the current feedback of "I want a tanking ability to use with a warrior or I want daggers and claws to matter".
Hope this clears up you concern with the throwers @Khego. I see all sorts of dynamic things happening as we progress and continually keep the end game ever green. Ideally after a few prestiges you'll have defensive builds, offensive builds, or a decent hybrid for all classes. This is just the first pass. :)
With each prestige the XP the player receives will be reduced.
Went over this on the discord, personally I am ok with it as long as the exp increase isn't absolutely giant, as like @Khego said, the only people it will frustrate / gate are the very casual players which may limit the majority of the playerbase accessing the system - especially the later tiers of prestige. Whereas the hardcore will get there regardless how the exp scales. Though I do believe there should be some difficulty ramp in progressing as SLord showed us on MW how quickly you can prestige if you really want to so this ones entirely in your court.
Warrior's Bastion (cast Warrior spell): Absorb's Damage taken by entire team and diverts said damage to the caster for one round.
Melee Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Attack affect to the character.
Upgrade two-handed weapons to Skill 6 (Veteran): 10% Chance for two-handed weapon to cleave (AoE)
The warrior ones seem well thought out, i.e. : You have a tank one, a pure dps one and a "utility" aoe ability. Awesome, in isolation.
Thief
Thief's Haste (cast Thief spell): Increase movement rate of the character by a multiple of two for three rounds.
Agile Perfection: Adds a permanent +1 Dodge affect to the character.
Upgrade one handed weapon skill to Skill 6 (Veteran): If skill is claw or dagger chance to bleed target, target cannot be healed while bleeding. Target must use "Healing" skill to close the wound.
Thief you have two utility options and a defensive even though I would never pick a thief for it's defensive capabilities. It has "meh" armour and hp pool compared to a warrior and should really have a pure dps option, but perhaps that's just me; +1 dodge is very very weak. Also "Increase movement rate of the character by a multiple of two for three rounds" of THE character - as in the one casting? Assuming it's a thief it will have high enough movement to catch any target anyway, and boosting someone else for two/three rounds probably isn't even a dps gain by the time you account for the thief not attacking at all the round it uses the ability. The only time it may be useful is boosting your warrior vs a shifting target or if he is rusted. Vs a shifter i'd likely still use my thrower thief anyway given the higher hit rate of dex on those targets. It will probably have pvp applications though. Perhaps Thief's haste should be party wide for 2 rounds? - Would have to test it out personally to see how it really plays into combat scenarios.
Wizard
Thaum Perfection: Ability to cast Mass Heal (Mini Heal Only)
Necro Perfection: Ability to cast Poison Barrage (AoE Poison Bolt)
Elem Perfection: Ability to cast Summon Elemental
Myst Perfection: Ability to cast Cloud of Fog (apply melee phase to the cloud for xx rounds, this is the melee equivalent of anti-magic aura)
Sorcerer's Attunement: Ability to take Sorcery SDM to 201% for the chance to 6x gear
Wizard all sound very cool;
Features - all awesome.
Shelved ideas - Sad face, but understandable.
I love the ideas going forward, but also agree with a lot of the other people here that it seems as though thief ideas are pretty lacking at least for prestige 1, seems as though there's only one option for pve and one for pvp, whereas the other classes all have great options depending what role you wish to fill. Also seems odd that warriors get the +1 atk even though they scale with attacks far harder than thief given the 2h use + ~400%+ MDM. I love the idea of ADV taking from any of them which is definitely a huge buff to adv, yet still seems balanced.
I only really play Thief now, so my thoughts are pretty specific.
If I read this right, and Prestige 1 is a career-defining choice between Thief's Haste, Agile Perfection, and Veteran Claw/Dagger, I can't see any circumstance in which anyone will ever take Agile Perfection (+1 dodge is super underwhelming).Thief's Haste is a weird concept, but maybe could be used to make shift-melee thieves more viable by allowing them to run all over the screen… except that the final alternative is also a melee ability, to "bleed" a target and prevent it healing, which sounds like a game-changer for PVP and (high-end) PVE.
On top of that, say I did have Veteran Claw/Dagger and wanted to bleed a self-healing PVE target. I can easily imagine myself sacrificing a turn to swap back to thrower as soon as the bleed is applied, because thrower puts out so much more damage in practice. Dagger damage isn't enough to justify the short range, and claws… same min-max as thrower, but way less opportunity to deal that damage, and the pain of being caught unshifted in a high-level mob of NPCs is simply way more than any thief can lifesteal through with a FIVE claw…
The thief bleed one is the clear "must take" for every thief, however I just wanted to drop a note and say that the dodge one has its place and isn't as bad as it seems at first glance. Not every thief is a thrower and those that aren't would benefit from the dodge pretty heavily.
Honestly non-throwers would probably benefit from the dodge "more" than bleed in that you aren't always fighting something that heals, yet bleed would still be the must take just to deal with things like holy caves.
The thief bleed one is the clear "must take" for every thief, however I just wanted to drop a note and say that the dodge one has its place and isn't as bad as it seems at first glance. Not every thief is a thrower and those that aren't would benefit from the dodge pretty heavily.
But realistically, what is the place of taking +1 dodge instead of melee bleed for a non-thrower thief? Especially if warriors are getting tanking skills and wizards can potentially get group-healing skills, indirectly making thiefs more survivable in a mixed party and better specialised as DPS-utility types.
Like you say, bleed would be game-changing in Holy Caves, and endgame monsters self-healing seems pretty standard everywhere (from imp kings to furies to fire wasps.) But I can't think of any content where one more dodge per round is going to matter.
as an aside, I'd also suggest that even for those who want to play melee thief, it's still important to carry and use a thrower. Seems to me that never using a thrower on a thief is like using only one spell school on a wizard; specialisation is clearly going to be a thing, but you wouldn't stop healing on a wizard just because you picked the mass venom prestige, for example. Different tools for different fights :)
There is no situation where you pass on the bleed in my mind.
This isn't because of dodge being undesirable or weak, it's just that the anti-healing bleed concept is too valuable to pass up.
I guess my point wasn't that you'd take the dodge over bleed, it was just that dodge as a prestige option has merit. Dodge is valuable as we all know or none of us would take Acrobatics yet we all do.
Another dodge is actually arguably more frequently valuable than the bleed - the dodge will bring value in all content prior to fire wasps and holy caves level stuff (like when you start over at level 1 after prestiging and are doing imp city) but, yes, we agree that the bleed is "must take".
I honestly don't know what they could put up against the anti-heal concept that would make it so anyone chose something other than bleed on first prestige. I'd take the bleed over +10% mdm, or +1 attack, or whatever. Not because those things aren't valuable, but because the proposed bleed would just be a "must take".
There is no situation where you pass on the bleed in my mind.
This isn't because of dodge being undesirable or weak, it's just that the anti-healing bleed concept is too valuable to pass up.
I guess my point wasn't that you'd take the dodge over bleed, it was just that dodge as a prestige option has merit. Dodge is valuable as we all know or none of us would take Acrobatics yet we all do.
Another dodge is actually arguably more frequently valuable than the bleed - the dodge will bring value in all content prior to fire wasps and holy caves level stuff (like when you start over at level 1 after prestiging and are doing imp city) but, yes, we agree that the bleed is "must take".
I honestly don't know what they could put up against the anti-heal concept that would make it so anyone chose something other than bleed on first prestige. I'd take the bleed over +10% mdm, or +1 attack, or whatever. Not because those things aren't valuable, but because the proposed bleed would just be a "must take".
I agree that as an individual choice it's pretty much the clear cut PvE option, however, if running more than 2 thieves or thief + adventurer combo you may have the debuff covered in which case the other options should become more desirable, however the current options do not become more desirable even if I already have the debuff in my group. Therein lays the issue for myself.
I’m pretty late to the party here, but I agree 100% with Khego in that I’d like to see the HoK take the defensive role and the HoZ as the offensive. His suggestion of boosting the MDM even more and replacing berserk with defenselessness sounds like a great solution (high risk high reward). I also support shelving the stat gate removal due to feasibility. All in all, I’m pretty happy with the direction we are headed.
Does the idea of Sorcerer's Attunement mean that there won't be a skill level of 6 for meditation? An extra level in med should take a 189 to 204.
I don't think leveling should be made more difficult. It will make a majority of casual players or slower paced players, such as myself, a little upset. Not all of us super level, so please take that into consideration. Thank you.
I agree with Vickstress. Keeping the same difficulty of the 1-1000 grind after prestiging seems to be the best route in my opinion. Scaling the difficulty up would create a large progression gap that would be discouraging for newcomers.
Does the idea of Sorcerer's Attunement mean that there won't be a skill level of 6 for meditation? An extra level in med should take a 189 to 204.
Meditation LvL 6 would not increase the Enchantment and Permanency SDM cap of 189, Sorcerer's Attunement will allow the SDM for Enchant/Perm to increase.